Options limited in Iran stand-off - Page 7

TheMercenary · 04-07-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Fark headline: "Remember that time when we kidnapped your sailors, threatened them into making false confessions, and then let them go? Well, now it's time for you to do a favor for us"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...ors/index.html

I about died laughing when I heard this on the news. I would tell them to Kiss My Big British Ass.

xoxoxoBruce · 04-07-2007, 05:29 PM

Or kill the 5, drag their bodies through the streets behind strykers, then burn them and hang them from a bridge.

TheMercenary · 04-07-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Or kill the 5, drag their bodies through the streets behind strykers, then burn them and hang them from a bridge.

Works for me.

TheMercenary · 04-07-2007, 06:42 PM

Begging for a Bombing
What should we make of the Iranians’ behavior?

By Victor Davis Hanson

It’s probably a good rule to do the opposite of anything the Iranian theocracy wants. Apparently, this government is now doing its darnedest to be bombed. So, for the time being, we should not grant them this wish.

In the last three years, the ranting adolescent theocrats in Tehran have alienated the United Nations’ Security Council to the point of earning trade sanctions. That’s a hard thing to do, given the U.N.’s bias toward the former third world and the way China and Russia value petroleum and trade above all else.

Prior to capturing last month 15 British military personnel, Iran had for years misled and embarrassed Britain, Germany, and France, who all tried to negotiate a peaceful end to Iranian nuclear proliferation. And as a rule, these are European nations that will suffer almost any indignity to talk a problem away.

It is also nearly impossible to offend the Russian government on any matter of law — except squelching on debts. Still, Iran even accomplished that. Moscow is withdrawing from the country its nuclear technicians, who are critical to Tehran’s efforts to obtain the bomb.

There is no need to mention Israel, which top Iranians have promised to wipe off the map — despite the fact that Israel is a nuclear power with a long record of military prowess. The Iranian leadership’s efforts to promote a radical Persian Shiite Islam have terrified nearby Sunni Jordan, Egypt, and the Gulf monarchies that now detest Iran as much as they do Israel.

Our beef with Iran, of course, goes back well before George W. Bush’s presidency. “The Great Satan” as a slur for America was coined when Jimmy Carter was president. In 1979, student gangsters stormed the American embassy in Tehran and took hostages. Prior to 9/11, the Iranian-backed Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist organization.

And by kidnapping last month the British sailors and marines, Iran de facto involved the European Union — Iran’s largest trading partner. The country’s leadership apparently worried little about retaliations from NATO, since their officers, according to one former top-ranking military official with whom I spoke, had been orchestrating the killing of Americans inside Iraq since well before Iranian vessels intercepted a British boat they claimed was in Iranian waters.

Those “realists,” like former Secretary of State James Baker, who insisted that we talk to Iran are now silent. Iran’s serial provocations seem to have finally turned off even those in the West who were always willing to give it a second and third chance.

What should we make of the Iranians’ behavior?

Namely that the country’s leadership is in deep political trouble. The Iranian government is desperate to provoke the West to win back friends in the Islamic world, and to quell growing unrest at home. Subsidizing food and gas, providing billions for terrorists and building nukes all cost money at a time when the state-run Iranian economy is in shambles.

Because of incompetence in their oil industry, the Iranian mullahs have achieved the impossible: Despite having among the world’s largest petroleum reserves, their production is shrinking and they have managed to earn increasingly less petrodollars even as the world price has soared.

While the Iranian theocrats understand that the entire world, including many of their own citizens, is turning against them, they also know that this could change if a Western nation would just attack them. Their strategy seems to be to find a way to provoke someone to drop a few bombs on them, on the naive assumption that such an assault would be of limited duration and damage. Such an attack, they may figure, would earn them sympathy in much of the world .

It is undeniable that the U.S., without either invading or suffering many casualties, could use its air power to send the Iranian economy and military back to the mullahs’ cherished seventh century. But there is no need to do so.

Instead, if the EU would cease all its trade with Iran, and if the West would divest entirely from the country — that is, boycott all companies that do any business with Tehran — the theocracy would face bankruptcy within months.

Even if further escalation were warranted, we could at some future date enforce a naval blockade of the Iranian coast that alone would determine what goods would be allowed into this outlaw regime.

But bomb Iran?

NRO Online

Cyclefrance · 04-07-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Or kill the 5, drag their bodies through the streets behind strykers, then burn them and hang them from a bridge.

How about gagging and tying them, putting them in a Royal Navy patrol boat, setting up an on-board PA system broadcasting a suitably worded message that the Iranians can go screw themselves if they think the British Navy is going to worry about being close to or even inside Iranian waters, and then setting them afloat more or less on the borderline between Iraq and Iran territories....

The 'Shatt al Arab' might just live up to its name...

Just an idea....

richlevy · 04-07-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

And by kidnapping last month the British sailors and marines, Iran de facto involved the European Union — Iran’s largest trading partner. The country’s leadership apparently worried little about retaliations from NATO, since their officers, according to one former top-ranking military official with whom I spoke, had been orchestrating the killing of Americans inside Iraq since well before Iranian vessels intercepted a British boat they claimed was in Iranian waters.

Could this be the new 'Curveball'? Curveball was the name of the intelligence source used as a basis for the Iraq invasion.

Aliantha · 04-07-2007, 09:08 PM

I don't think anyone would have as much luck invading Iran as they have had invading Iraq.

piercehawkeye45 · 04-07-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I don't think anyone would have as much luck invading Iran as they have had invading Iraq.

I think Britian and America could beat Iran but it would be a lot tougher than Iraq. Not only are they twice the size, a lot more advanced militarily and have a much bigger military, they are all on the same side.

Happy Monkey · 04-07-2007, 09:42 PM

That might actually make it easier. We wouldn't have to pretend we're doing it for the benefit of the Iranian people.

Aliantha · 04-07-2007, 09:44 PM

Well I was actually joking about having less luck. I wouldn't think it could possibly have gone worse for the US and it's allies with the Iraq invasion, but I guess that's just my opinion and not necessarily a fact.

tw · 04-08-2007, 05:39 AM

Why is anyone even considering war as an option? These are silly little 'china spy plane' incidents that only 'big dic' thinkers even tried to promote into total war with mainland China. Notice one hyping this 'big dic' mentality is TheMercenary - which is so predictable because his solution to everything is violence.

Look folks. When it comes to credibility, none is currently lower than the US. The hypocrisy is stunning. Abu Ghriad. Guantanamo. No one can remain honest and can accept at face value anything from this US government (George Jr administration) says without shear and massive doubt. And Tony Blair is cast in that same shadow.

How do we solve this our more serious problem? We "bomb the fuck out of them". Classic 'big dic' thinking that only TheMercenary and UG would promote.

When it comes to five Iranians, well, they can declare they were tortured. Because of what America now stands for, they may be right. Does not matter. The world has plenty of reason to believe those iranians. Meanwhile words from 15 British sailors and marines also have little credibility because of Abu Ghriad, Guantanamo, etc. The world now regards even torture as standard MO by Americans. Worse, torturing any Anglo-American is no longer considered taboo throughout many parts of the world where Americans and British were once so much respected. This also because of 'big dic' posters like TheMercenary.

Of course 'big dics' like TheMercenary will tell us how the world always hates us. That is also necessary to promote hate and murder in a George Jr tradition.

DanaC · 04-08-2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

The world now regards even torture as standard MO by Americans. Worse, torturing any Anglo-American is no longer considered taboo throughout many parts of the world where Americans and British were once so much respected.

This unfortunately true, I think. It's not just the Americans either tw. There have now been enough cases of Iraqis 'disappeared' by British forces, with their families ignorant as to whether they've died, or been incarcerated, only to have the body turn up later wth signs of brutality. I don't think it's our general MO, but it's happened enough to taint us with that image.

As for America's use of torture....British citizens have been held for upwards of two years and tortured in Guantanemo Bay. Other nationals are still there....five years and counting. Five years, held with no charge, no recourse to justice, no chance to explain, no chance to view the 'evidence' against them. Held in conditions which are dehumanising and frightening, subjected to sleep deprivation and 'mild' torture to ensure confessions (I know I'd telll them anything to make them stop. I'd give them any names I could think of it wouldn't matter whether that person was guilty or innocent). Five years. Think about that.

The two lads from Tipton and the one from Manchester spent two and half years in Guantanemo Bay and were eventually released with no charges. That's because they hadn't done anything. Like many of the unfortunate bastards in Guantanemo, they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Visiting Pakistan, crossed the border for a trip to somewhere (the two countries are very close and people hop across the border often)get caught up in the fighting and imprisoned by the Taleban.....then instead of the Americans liberatin those prisoners, they take them in as prisoners themselves.

There are cases of Iranian diplomats crossing into Iraq and being abducted and held by Coalition forces. Don't see much of that on the news.

There are also numerous cases of people going to the states and being taken into custody (why it's not certain, since they aren't allowed recourse to normal legal proceedings: therefore if it's a mix up on names there's no way for them to even know it, let alone prove they aren't who was being sought after) and then flown to other countries where torture is legal. One of these was a Canadian citizen who was on holiday in New York.

In Britain and Canada ( I don't know about other countries) Moslems and Indians are advised not to visit the United States unless they absolutely have to.

This isn't an American bashing gig. the UK and Europe are complicit in these acts. We have allowed planes, transporting prisoners to other countries for torture, to set down in Europe and refuel. In the UK, if someone is suspected of planning any kind of terrorist act they can be held without charge for a limited time. If a judge (note just a judge, there's no jury, no court, no chance to hear the evidence) decides that its in the country's interest that someone be incarcerated then they will be. If the judge decides that someone should be placed under house arrest, then they will be. The normal standards of evidence have been suspended. hearsay is enough.

duck_duck · 04-08-2007, 07:58 AM

Some things I have noticed about americans is they generally do not like the idea of torture unless they think it will save lives of their own people. Those involved in the abu ghraib were prosecuted and as for guantanamo bay, of course they are going to detain people they suspect as being involved in terrorism. America suffered a devastating attack from islam extremists so it is in their best interest to detain anybody they come across that might be involved with such terror groups. They even sentenced an american citizen to life in prison after they caught him fighting for the taliban and they were right to do so.

TheMercenary · 04-08-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

We "bomb the fuck out of them". Classic 'big dic' thinking that only TheMercenary and UG would promote.

This also because of 'big dic' posters like TheMercenary.

Of course 'big dics' like TheMercenary will tell us how the world always hates us. That is also necessary to promote hate and murder in a George Jr tradition.

For the record, I never stated in any post that we "bomb the fuck out of them", as tiny wennie posted.

Undertoad · 04-08-2007, 10:41 AM

Telegraph: Buoyant Teheran warns of further kidnappings

Quote:

Hardliners within the regime have been lining up to crow about Britain's humiliation, and indicated that the operation was planned.

Conservative parliamentarian Amir Hassankhani, a former member of the country's Revolutionary Guard and supporter of the president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, told the country's semi-official Fars news agency: "The arrest and release of the British sailors proved that if Iran's issues and demands are overlooked at the international level, the Islamic republic can create different challenges for the other side."

04-07-2007, 05:29 PM	#92
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Or kill the 5, drag their bodies through the streets behind strykers, then burn them and hang them from a bridge. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-07-2007, 06:42 PM	#94
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Begging for a Bombing What should we make of the Iranians’ behavior? By Victor Davis Hanson It’s probably a good rule to do the opposite of anything the Iranian theocracy wants. Apparently, this government is now doing its darnedest to be bombed. So, for the time being, we should not grant them this wish. In the last three years, the ranting adolescent theocrats in Tehran have alienated the United Nations’ Security Council to the point of earning trade sanctions. That’s a hard thing to do, given the U.N.’s bias toward the former third world and the way China and Russia value petroleum and trade above all else. Prior to capturing last month 15 British military personnel, Iran had for years misled and embarrassed Britain, Germany, and France, who all tried to negotiate a peaceful end to Iranian nuclear proliferation. And as a rule, these are European nations that will suffer almost any indignity to talk a problem away. It is also nearly impossible to offend the Russian government on any matter of law — except squelching on debts. Still, Iran even accomplished that. Moscow is withdrawing from the country its nuclear technicians, who are critical to Tehran’s efforts to obtain the bomb. There is no need to mention Israel, which top Iranians have promised to wipe off the map — despite the fact that Israel is a nuclear power with a long record of military prowess. The Iranian leadership’s efforts to promote a radical Persian Shiite Islam have terrified nearby Sunni Jordan, Egypt, and the Gulf monarchies that now detest Iran as much as they do Israel. Our beef with Iran, of course, goes back well before George W. Bush’s presidency. “The Great Satan” as a slur for America was coined when Jimmy Carter was president. In 1979, student gangsters stormed the American embassy in Tehran and took hostages. Prior to 9/11, the Iranian-backed Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist organization. And by kidnapping last month the British sailors and marines, Iran de facto involved the European Union — Iran’s largest trading partner. The country’s leadership apparently worried little about retaliations from NATO, since their officers, according to one former top-ranking military official with whom I spoke, had been orchestrating the killing of Americans inside Iraq since well before Iranian vessels intercepted a British boat they claimed was in Iranian waters. Those “realists,” like former Secretary of State James Baker, who insisted that we talk to Iran are now silent. Iran’s serial provocations seem to have finally turned off even those in the West who were always willing to give it a second and third chance. What should we make of the Iranians’ behavior? Namely that the country’s leadership is in deep political trouble. The Iranian government is desperate to provoke the West to win back friends in the Islamic world, and to quell growing unrest at home. Subsidizing food and gas, providing billions for terrorists and building nukes all cost money at a time when the state-run Iranian economy is in shambles. Because of incompetence in their oil industry, the Iranian mullahs have achieved the impossible: Despite having among the world’s largest petroleum reserves, their production is shrinking and they have managed to earn increasingly less petrodollars even as the world price has soared. While the Iranian theocrats understand that the entire world, including many of their own citizens, is turning against them, they also know that this could change if a Western nation would just attack them. Their strategy seems to be to find a way to provoke someone to drop a few bombs on them, on the naive assumption that such an assault would be of limited duration and damage. Such an attack, they may figure, would earn them sympathy in much of the world . It is undeniable that the U.S., without either invading or suffering many casualties, could use its air power to send the Iranian economy and military back to the mullahs’ cherished seventh century. But there is no need to do so. Instead, if the EU would cease all its trade with Iran, and if the West would divest entirely from the country — that is, boycott all companies that do any business with Tehran — the theocracy would face bankruptcy within months. Even if further escalation were warranted, we could at some future date enforce a naval blockade of the Iranian coast that alone would determine what goods would be allowed into this outlaw regime. But bomb Iran? NRO Online __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

04-07-2007, 09:08 PM	#97
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I don't think anyone would have as much luck invading Iran as they have had invading Iraq. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

04-07-2007, 09:42 PM	#99
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	That might actually make it easier. We wouldn't have to pretend we're doing it for the benefit of the Iranian people. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

04-07-2007, 09:44 PM	#100
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Well I was actually joking about having less luck. I wouldn't think it could possibly have gone worse for the US and it's allies with the Iraq invasion, but I guess that's just my opinion and not necessarily a fact. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

04-08-2007, 05:39 AM	#101
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Why is anyone even considering war as an option? These are silly little 'china spy plane' incidents that only 'big dic' thinkers even tried to promote into total war with mainland China. Notice one hyping this 'big dic' mentality is TheMercenary - which is so predictable because his solution to everything is violence. Look folks. When it comes to credibility, none is currently lower than the US. The hypocrisy is stunning. Abu Ghriad. Guantanamo. No one can remain honest and can accept at face value anything from this US government (George Jr administration) says without shear and massive doubt. And Tony Blair is cast in that same shadow. How do we solve this our more serious problem? We "bomb the fuck out of them". Classic 'big dic' thinking that only TheMercenary and UG would promote. When it comes to five Iranians, well, they can declare they were tortured. Because of what America now stands for, they may be right. Does not matter. The world has plenty of reason to believe those iranians. Meanwhile words from 15 British sailors and marines also have little credibility because of Abu Ghriad, Guantanamo, etc. The world now regards even torture as standard MO by Americans. Worse, torturing any Anglo-American is no longer considered taboo throughout many parts of the world where Americans and British were once so much respected. This also because of 'big dic' posters like TheMercenary. Of course 'big dics' like TheMercenary will tell us how the world always hates us. That is also necessary to promote hate and murder in a George Jr tradition.

04-08-2007, 07:58 AM	#103
duck_duck Soul Duck Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: over here Posts: 485	Some things I have noticed about americans is they generally do not like the idea of torture unless they think it will save lives of their own people. Those involved in the abu ghraib were prosecuted and as for guantanamo bay, of course they are going to detain people they suspect as being involved in terrorism. America suffered a devastating attack from islam extremists so it is in their best interest to detain anybody they come across that might be involved with such terror groups. They even sentenced an american citizen to life in prison after they caught him fighting for the taliban and they were right to do so.

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