Obama's Dog

[classicman]

Amen.

[Nirvana]

This thread is not about dogs that are well bred its about dogs that are raised correctly in an environment where the breeder has taken the time to socialize them so they are suitable as a family pet. There is a critical time period in a puppy's life where this has to take place [4-12 weeks] and commercial kennels are only interested in weaning puppies and getting them out the door. Their human contact is limited. That does not mean they have to have 30 champions in their pedigree or have a pedigree at all to achieve this...I am not a dog snob I have had my fair share of JSU's and I love them just as much as my purebred dogs.

[Nirvana]

In Defense of Animals is seeking a donation of $1 with every purchase made on eBay.

Most people would probably react that this "a great way to help animals and they've made it so easy I'll do it."

The vast majority of donors would not realize this is a hard-core animal rights organization (on par with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) and they would send that buck without checking what it was really going to be used for.

From http://www.idausa.org/

"It is the policy of In Defense of Animals to no longer use language that accepts the current concept of animals as property, commodities and/or things. Rather than refer to ourselves or others as "owners" of animals we share our
lives with, we now refer to ourselves and others as "guardians" of our animal friends and to animals as "he" or "she" rather than "it."

The president of "In Defense of Animals," Dr. Elliott Katz, said in 1997: " It is time we demand an end to the misguided and abusive concept of animal ownership. The first step on this long, but just, road would be ending the concept of pet ownership."

Please let your friends and family know In Defense of Animals is an anti-pet organization. If they want to help animals, they can make a donation to a local no-kill shelter, to breed rescue, or to an organization fighting for pet owners' rights. Give them the name of a group you support, or help them find one worthy of their contribution. If you or a family member are eBay enthusiasts, you could counter the IDA campaign by keeping track of your purchases (or sales) and donating a small percentage of your monthly total to an organization that actually does something FOR pets and our right to have them.

[classicman]

Lemme think this thru a sec.
Currently animals are YOUR property. YOU are upset that because of this the gov't is proposing to tax you or whatever as a breeder. This organization is promoting an end to animal ownership. The gov't won't be able to tax you since you no longer legally own them.
Why aren't you supporting this?

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by classicman

Lemme think this thru a sec.
Currently animals are YOUR property. YOU are upset that because of this the gov't is proposing to tax you or whatever as a breeder. This organization is promoting an end to animal ownership. The gov't won't be able to tax you since you no longer legally own them.
Why aren't you supporting this?

None of this legislation in my state directly affects me I don't breed enough dogs. The whole point is that a minority with money wants a meatless, pet less society and people like you are going to bend over and grab your ankles while they are doing it.

[classicman]

Oh thanks for the insult - I appreciate that.

[Nirvana]

Well you are welcome since you were insulting my intelligence throughout the entire thread I thought it was the least I could do!

I appreciate and support the work of organizations like ASPCA and HSUS. Although I cant document it, I suspect both organizations have widespread support in most communities.

PETA, on the other hand, is in a different class.

But so are those on the other side of the animal rights debate who misrepresent state laws as scare tactics, quote the CCF as a source of factual information rather than the industry front group propaganda machine that it is, and espouse rhetoric about the coming meatless, pet less society.

IMO, neither extremist should be taken seriously.

[Nirvana]

What does the HSUS do actually besides spend their millions of dollars on lobbying for legislation that is directed at people that own animals? They own no animal shelters. They do not rescue dogs . Just what is their agenda?
Lobbying and trying to pass laws that violate the civil rights of others..

You don't want to breed animals? Don't breed them! You don't want to eat animals? Don't eat them! Just as I respect your right to have those views kindly give me the same right to breed animals and eat meat if I want to. This is the USA and 1984 is just a piece of literature... so far...

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Just as I respect your right to have those views kindly give me the same right to breed animals and eat meat if I want to. This is the USA and 1984 is just a piece of literature... so far...

I respect your right to breed animals and eat meat.

I dont respect the propaganda you have espoused throughout this thread.....as a I noted - misrepresenting state laws, citing the CCF as a source of factual information, etc.

Dont most state and local humane dociety's own shelters and rescue dogs? I know the Washington DC Humane Society does.

[Nirvana]

No one that supports the animals rights extremist group known as the HSUS respects the rights of others. Since you have not proven that any of the facts that the CCF has written are wrong through any supporting facts other than meat producers being their largest contributors I suggest it is you that lacks credibility. Show me what HSUS is doing besides lobbying for legislation that violates the civil rights of animal owners. Show me the animal shelters they have. Show the animals they are helping.
Dog RESCUE is entirely different than an animal shelter. Rescues are usually breed specific.

Originally Posted by Nirvana

No one that supports the animals rights extremist group known as the HSUS respects the rights of others. Since you have not proven that any of the facts that the CCF has written are wrong through any supporting facts other than meat producers being their largest contributors I suggest it is you that lacks credibility. Show me what HSUS is doing besides lobbying for legislation that violates the civil rights of animal owners. Show me the animal shelters they have. Show the animals they are helping

Look, you can believe the CCF even though it does not document any of its allegations. That is your right. But until it provides sources for the numerous charges on its "fact sheets," I dont give it much credibility and will treat it as an industry front group and not a consumer advocate...and that is my right.

As to the HSUS....dont most state and local humane societies own shelters and rescue dogs? I know the Washington DC Humane Society does and it is widely supported in the city and not just by "a minority with money who want a meatless, pet less sociey."

[Nirvana]

Humane Society of the United States... Catchy name they have huh? Makes you think they are the ones in charge of your Humane Society. Well they have nothing to do with any humane societies except that is in their name. Ask your shelter.The HSUS is not affiliated with any local shelters. They have nothing to do with your local shelter
I wonder why HSUS with all their money does not sue CCF for libel? Because you can't really do that when its the truth.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Did you read the article CM?
Usually rescue dogs have problems that go beyond an amateur's knowledge of care.

Yes I read the OPINION piece you quoted. So what? Because you repeatedly quoted it doesn't mean that her opinion is any more valid than yours, mine or anyone elses.
And again, I wholeheartedly disagree with the author that "rescue dogs usually have problems...." The problems just make good press. You NEVER hear of the hundreds of thousands that go to good homes without problems, just loving families.

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Well you are welcome since you were insulting my intelligence throughout the entire thread I thought it was the least I could do!

I never insulted your intelligence. I questioned some of your opinions. I voiced my opinions which differed. Isn't that what this is all about? Yet because I disagreed, I insulted you?

Originally Posted by Nirvana

What does the HSUS do actually besides spend their millions of dollars on lobbying for legislation that is directed at people that own animals?

I would certainly hope that they would direct their efforts at people with animals.
In 2008, they only spent $40,000. They haven't spent more than $200,000 since 2004.

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Just what is their agenda?
Lobbying and trying to pass laws that violate the civil rights of others..

try this
or this

Originally Posted by classicman

Uh, no I don't think so - try this

Thanks for the link on HSUS lobbying expenditures.

It looks to me like they spend far more each year on providing free veterinary care in rural communities than they do on lobbying.

Each year HSVMA-RAVS provides over $1 million in free veterinary services to upwards of 7,000 animals, all at no cost to the clients or communities we serve. In addition the program provides valuable training and experience for hundreds of future veterinary professionals that goes far beyond anything they could learn in a classroom alone.

http://ruralareavet.org/