Scare yourself

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by jaguar

Not while at best a portion of most minorities work on the basis that every 'cracker' is racist.

Now now..not ALL, but there are some..even many. They just are not in your face like they have been in the past.

Bruce:

The danger there is misinterpreting a "look". It could be nothing more than revulsion of/at your haircut. If you look for something, you're likely to find it.

Heh, well all I can say is that when you are used to "the look", you can pretty much spot it a mile away, and it has nothing to do with the way your hair is that day.

[jane_says]

I am aware of these things, but I am also aware of James Byrd, the KKK, segregation, the fight for civil rights, and many, many other things that trump those that you mention. Are you honestly saying that white people suffer from persecution in the US?

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by jane_says

I am aware of these things, but I am also aware of James Byrd, the KKK, segregation, the fight for civil rights, and many, many other things that trump those that you mention. Are you honestly saying that white people suffer from persecution in the US?

james byrd - that's a recent event and fair play
kkk - other races have their stupid supremacy groups, too - and nobody respects them
segregation, the fight for civil rights - more than 30 years ago.

why is it that when someone points out that racism goes in all directions, the knee jerk reaction is to point out what white people have done in the past.

the james byrd tragedy is no more indicative of the average caucasion than the central park jogger assault is of the black or hispanic community.
but what you didn't see is a crowd of white people standing outside the courthouse campaigning that prosecuting Byrd's murderers was a racist witchhunt.

[wolf]

You are saying that. I was refuting your statement that it never happens.

[Clodfobble]

Are you honestly saying that white people suffer from persecution in the US?

Nope. That various ethnic groups did suffer from it in the past, strove to rise above it, and did so successfully. Like Bill Cosby was saying, if you value education and success over victimhood, then all of a sudden you wake up one day and you're not a victim anymore.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Are you honestly saying that white people suffer from persecution in the US?

Nope. That various ethnic groups did suffer from it in the past, strove to rise above it, and did so successfully. Like Bill Cosby was saying, if you value education and success over victimhood, then all of a sudden you wake up one day and you're not a victim anymore.

Hrm, I didn't get that from what he said, but oh well. Maybe I need to read his comments again. Brick walls and glass ceiling still exist.

[jaguar]

example?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Fact of life; advancement in most companies depends on networking and who you know, more than ability. This means everyone that's not "a friend", "golfing buddy", "poker pal", "fellow lodge member" of the boss or know someone who is, is screwed. That includes whites as well as anyone else. People being people, that will likely be the case for some time.
I remember back in the 70s, Westinghouse hired a black man to run the employment office, to make sure black people weren't discriminated against. After he had hired over 100 blacks, and nothing else, they fired him.

[ladysycamore]

Justice for all? Not at work not yet anyway:

http://www.campusaction.net/publicat...rimination.htm

The civil-rights movement of the 1960s gave hope to African Americans for equity in the workplace. But almost four decades later, that promise remains largely unfilled, according to a recent study.

The survey of 1,003 workers was conducted last fall by Rutgers University and the University of Connecticut. It describes a "glaring divide" between white workers, who say most people are not discriminated against at work, and minorities, who do not agree. Particularly African Americans.

Among the findings: Half of African-American workers believe that blacks are the most likely ethnic group to be treated unfairly, compared to 10 percent of whites and 13 percent of other racial groups who believe African Americans are the most likely target. Fifty-six percent of higher-income nonwhite workers believe that African Americans are the employees most likely to be discriminated against, compared to 33 percent of higher-income white workers. And, 28 percent of African Americans report they have been discriminated against at work, compared to 6 percent of whites.

"That is indeed likely to be the perception of African-American workers today, because even though we've made some strides since the 1960s, discrimination still exists," said Chris Bardwell, a veteran career consultant, counselor and trainer based in Chicago.

"In terms of looking at the numbers of black men or women in executive positions, there are very few of us. African Americans still are most likely to be treated unfairly in terms of promotions, opportunities for additional training, being part of the good old boy network and special projects," said Bardwell.

Additionally, African Americans often feel isolated on the job-as Bardwell felt as the only African American in the executive ranks of a large organization. "You're held to a standard where you must be better than or twice as good as white men and women in order to get ahead," she said. "We are slowly progressing, but I just hope the numbers don't get worse."

I asked Bardwell where she would be today if discrimination hadn't been so pervasive. Without hesitation, she answered: "If I were white, I'd be a corporate senior vice president with a corner office and all the perks."

Howard Lindsey, chairman of the history department at DePaul University, says, "institutional white racism didn't die with the end of the civil rights movement. It took other forms and might not be as blatant-but if you look under the surface you find some of the same attitudes. And people with those attitudes will find a way to manifest them."

Lindsey, who teaches a course in African-American history, says these are the best of times and worst of times for blacks in the workplace. "The best, because the fact that there are now a few black CEOs is unprecedented," he said. "On the other hand, the masses of black workers, even though they're let in the door, are limited in how far they can go."

Still, 50 percent of the African Americans surveyed believe things have gotten better. "Is the glass half-full or half-empty? One out of two African Americans still experience discrimination," Lindsey said. "I don't think that's going to change that much that soon-but I'm hoping I'm wrong on this."

(c) 2002, Chicago Tribune.

[Troubleshooter]

Another point that may be getting overlooked is why are they discriminted against?

Could it be that the disproportionate amount of illiteracy in the black community is skewing the number of representative blacks in jobs?

Could it be that the media representation of blacks is causing a sort of second-hand discrimination as opposed to the morons in the supremicist groups?

Also, what is the number (%) of black executives in the workforce? Are the levels correlated?

[FatFreddie]

I've read this story a couple of times. It's hard to tell if she's over reacting, or if this was a rehersal.
F

[jaguar]

Well call me cynical but blacks thinking blacks are discriminated against doesn't count for much in my book. Call me cynical but I know from talking to cops here that every time they arrest a black kid here they call racism, never mind the fact they're guilty as sin and being dealt with like everyone else, in much the same way I'd say a fair bit if the hand-wringing in the article 'I didn't get promoted because I'm black' could just be because someone else was better for the job, god forbid. Or someone else, as bruce said, was a golfing buddy or fellow lodge member and race had shit all to do with it, just plain old jobs for the boys. I'm sure some of it goes on but hell, I know a fair few people that sit on boards of some damn big companies and if they thought their managers were skewing promotions based on race rather than peformance they'd hit the damn roof. Maybe it's different in the US but colour me skeptical.

[DanaC]

Maybe then black people are just statistically least likely to be suited to the job ..... maybe there's some very good reason as to why their opportunities seem less and the wages they command overall dont quite add up to those of their white counterparts.

Funnily enough the very thing you point out as part of the reason for your skepticism is also the thing that suggests to me most strongly that the problem does exist as it's been stated.....to whit, the fact that it's usually black people who claim racism against themselves and their fellow blacks.....I hear that and it occurs to me that it's usually the white folks who are claiming racism as a nonissue. Perhaps that's because the life experience of a black man ( or woman) intorduces him to racism and bigotry at a very young age and in an intimate way.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Funnily enough the very thing you point out as part of the reason for your skepticism is also the thing that suggests to me most strongly that the problem does exist as it's been stated.....to whit, the fact that it's usually black people who claim racism against themselves and their fellow blacks.....I hear that and it occurs to me that it's usually the white folks who are claiming racism as a nonissue. Perhaps that's because the life experience of a black man ( or woman) intorduces him to racism and bigotry at a very young age and in an intimate way.

or maybe it is that many white people like me have been accused of racism by those who cry the loudest. these is an accusation that makes all thinking individuals step back in a moment of introspection. i have always come away from those moments acknowledging that if you think the world is out to get you, it is very easy to find examples of wrongs directed at you. i know, for myself, that i hold no racist ideologies. in fact, my lack of racism is often what causes the racist card thrown in my direction. i don't care what color a person is. for good or bad, i don't care. they will receive no special attention, positive or negative, due to skin color. i feel no obligation to provide ANY special consideration for skin pigmentation. i am responsible for my actions alone, i hold no historic guilt and will not be yoked by someone else's guilt. a person is just a person in my eyes.

------------------
dana snuck in ahead of me: always look just beyond the numbers too. when i was in college, my minority relations professor (who hated me ) required that we look into a recent news story in the area. the largest fire department in the area had fewer than 10 black firefighters out of well over 100 total firefighters. everyone wrote papers about the obvious racist bent of the FD. i wrote mine on the fact that black firefighters hired vs compared to black firefighters applied was a much better ration than white firefighters hired vs white firefighters applied. his predictable response was that if my research was accurate that it only proved the FD was racist for not going out and finding more black applicants. this FD was very popular, they didn't do much in the way of recruiting - they would show up to the local highschools and colleges for the pre-graduation job fairs to hand out fliers, that is it.
but that goes to show that if you look hard enough, you can find a racist bent to anything.

[DanaC]

That's a civilised attitude Lookout. Unfortunately there are enough people who dont think like that as to make a racist world. Just because some whites are not racist does not make the black experience any less discriminated against.