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Old 10-26-2007, 02:47 AM   #1
DanaC
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Ibby you just sent a shiver down my spine.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:57 PM   #2
Urbane Guerrilla
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Neither of you, tw or dar, are being honest, and if you get attacked for your dishonesty, you really shouldn't be implying I'm anything other than right. Enjoy your pseudotriumph if you can but remember: it's all based on you lying to yourselves. You can't lie to me. You never could accept the best answer, and tw in particular cannot endure an American victory, and is covering this up very thinly with noise. You and I both know what an actively antipatriotic individual you are, and for it you are damned.
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:01 PM   #3
xoxoxoBruce
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Would you like some music to go with that dance?
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Old 10-29-2007, 01:21 PM   #4
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post
Neither of you, tw or dar, are being honest, and if you get attacked for your dishonesty, you really shouldn't be implying I'm anything other than right.
Please fill us with your honesty. Our loins ache for your honesty. Answer dar512's two simple questions.
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:05 PM   #5
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I've given a worthwhile answer. Those who say otherwise are merely talking stuff.
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:10 PM   #6
xoxoxoBruce
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I can picture you with earplugs, saying nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah, while you type that. It made me giggle like a school girl.
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:51 PM   #7
Urbane Guerrilla
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Dar's dishonesty consisted in the conceiving of his question: he might better have put it "Are we winning in Afghanistan and if so, when have we won?" That might have been a better question, and it wouldn't have been crafted to try and trip up someone, as dar's was -- not that he's very good at that when he's crossing swords with someone of my experience. If I'm going to answer a "have you stopped beating your wife" special, it will be an answer to something deeper than the surface of the question.

Tw has for a couple of years now been desperate to find anything at all he could give me grief about. Not on his best day. Not for the likes of him.

The opposition to this war against the newest fascists remains without any idea for actually winning it at all, let alone winning it better than the Bush Administration can. This prevents their point of view from having worth or integrity. You yourself, Bruce, have no idea how better to win this war, nor, I note, any principles on which to base an idea that your road has more virtue than mine. I did in effect ask you about that not long ago and got back complete silence. Either you have no principles on which to oppose me, or you're being reticent because you doubt they'd compare well to mine, or...? Just because you once told me you weren't at all on my side, is that any particular reason to run around trying to prove it at each and every opportunity? People who try that around me tend to talk themselves into corners...

The only right road against undemocracy is to win against it. There's nothing wrong with accomplishing this by a holistic strategy incorporating both war and peace -- but war is needed to answer the war they'd start to prevent, for whatever reason their warmongers think sufficient, their integration into the global economy and attendant culture, or mosaic of cultures.
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Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 10-28-2007 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post
... he might better have put it "Are we winning in Afghanistan and if so, when have we won?"
No, Bush fucked that one up big time.
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:55 PM   #9
Kitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post
The only right road against undemocracy is to win against it.

"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"

So, if the US once ruled waterboarding a war crime once upon time, is it now no longer considered that because we're the people administering it or is 1947 too "pre-9/11" to understand?
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:11 PM   #10
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You don't know the answer, dar doesn't know the answer, I don't know the answer (though I have understanding enough of these things to make a couple guesses), Sean Hannity doesn't know the answer. There's a whole crowd of us who don't have a definitive, fully knowledgeable answer.

And OPSEC is why. This whole fight is going to be won or lost on HUMINT. HUMINT can be a dirty business -- it's where the old cloak and dagger of espionage novels comes in. Of course, losing the war is even dirtier than that, isn't it? Or had you noticed? Most of the rest of information gathering is a day at the office, or something close to radio astronomy. These only become relevant if they are where the information is. With this foe, these are mostly where the information isn't.

There is one answer I do know: if we do it the way you want it done, success will not follow. There will be no "positive conclusion" if we do what you want. I'd rather not have it that way, understanding your motivations as clearly as I do.
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:12 PM   #11
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More waterboarding history.
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:15 PM   #12
TheMercenary
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Wonder if it would help make illegal's in the US go home?
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Old 10-30-2007, 05:02 PM   #13
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no, but i bet if you put a bullet in the skull of 1/3 illegals caught coming across and let the word get out, they'd quit coming.
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Old 10-30-2007, 06:10 PM   #14
bluecuracao
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Probably more than that get killed, maimed, or raped trying to get here as it is, so I bet you're wrong.
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Old 10-30-2007, 06:33 PM   #15
lookout123
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i think you exaggerate a bit, but let's pretend you are correct. you are saying that the illegals who make it this far only represent 2/3 of those that started the journey. ok. so if we take 1/3 that make it this far and put one in the back of the head that leaves only 43% of those that started the journey. Then you put an appropriate punishment in place for employers caught with illegal employees (such as the law recently passed in arizona). So now you have only a 43% chance of surviving your journey and will have a hard time finding a job once you arrive... my guess is you'd see a reduction in traffic.
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