Kidnapped girl found 18 years later

[dar512]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Dana, I understand your concerns about the possible wrongly convicted death row rider. Quite simply I don't care.

I'm an American, I don't have to care.
- Denny Crane

As an American you should care. Part of the basis for the formation of the US was the respect of the rights of the individual. Not just you. Every individual.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

We get to save about $50,000 a year. ....

Cite?

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.

The California example. More here.

[Pooka]

Originally Posted by Flint

I would like to hear the arguments FOR the death penalty.

Considering that we all damn well know that any human institution is prone to glitches and imperfections, what is the payoff that society receives in exchange for granting our government the power to take a human life? What are the benefits?

We the tax payers don't have to pay for the care, food, accomidations and education of those prisoners. That is the pay off...

I personally don't want to pay for keeping ANY prisoner... solution: kill em or put them to work to support their own keep. Let them make the decision for themselves. Make sure you tax them yearly and charge them for the cost of the wasted realestate space that the prison is located on while you're at it... make the prsion 100% self sustaining. There is no reason they can't grow their own food, use old parts to build solar panels and turbines to supply power. Prisioner don't need gyms or TV... let them work the fields. Its healthier and cheeper. Strip away all the nicities... no vending machines... no basket ball courts or play yards. No cafeteria... they can eat in their cells. No education... donated books and a library only. No internet. In fact... now that I think about it ... what is wrong with letting them live like the Amish. Its a good clean healthy lifestyle that costs the rest of us nothing.

[dar512]

@Pooka

I like it. Why isn't it like that?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Flint

I would like to hear the arguments FOR the death penalty.

Considering that we all damn well know that any human institution is prone to glitches and imperfections, what is the payoff that society receives in exchange for granting our government the power to take a human life? What are the benefits?

I believe that is why they call it Capital Punishment. It is used for punishment.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Cite?

Originally Posted by classicman

We get to save about $50,000 a year. Oh and it works really well as a deterrent. <dripping with sarcasm>

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pooka

We the tax payers don't have to pay for the care, food, accomidations and education of those prisoners. That is the pay off...

I personally don't want to pay for keeping ANY prisoner... solution: kill em or put them to work to support their own keep. Let them make the decision for themselves. Make sure you tax them yearly and charge them for the cost of the wasted realestate space that the prison is located on while you're at it... make the prsion 100% self sustaining. There is no reason they can't grow their own food, use old parts to build solar panels and turbines to supply power. Prisioner don't need gyms or TV... let them work the fields. Its healthier and cheeper. Strip away all the nicities... no vending machines... no basket ball courts or play yards. No cafeteria... they can eat in their cells. No education... donated books and a library only. No internet. In fact... now that I think about it ... what is wrong with letting them live like the Amish. Its a good clean healthy lifestyle that costs the rest of us nothing.

You bitch - I love it!!!

[glatt]

Prisoners are paid far less than minimum wage, which creates an unfair playing field. Small business owners hate competing with prison labor. They consider it to be unfair competition. If you own a wood working shop and pay your employees $10/hr to make furniture, how are you going to compete with a prison shop that only pays its workers $0.25/hr? Your bar stool will cost $75 and you will have $5 profit, while the prison can sell its bar stool for $40 and have $30 profit. (Numbers pulled out of my ass to illustrate a point.)

[monster]

change your business to make disposable wooden electric chairs and coffins.....

[DanaC]

Also, the idea of them living like the Amish is all very attractive: but the Amish are peaceful rule-following folk. By the very nature of the prison population that's not going to work without a degree of coercion/compulsion and that requires guards and security. It is safer for the guards if they can persuade prisoners to good behaviour through positives and negatives. Carrot and stick. Rewards and withdrawals. The little elements of ordinary life to which prisoners have access (such as tv, access to education courses, a smattering of comforts) are powerful because they can be given or withdrawn according to the prisoner's behaviour. If they only had the stick and no carrot the prisoners would soon lose all respect for and fear of that stick and become uncontrollable. Bear in mind a significant number of them are violent and lacking in restraint. Without the option of rewarding good behaviour, prison guards would be in an ever-tightening cycle of brutality until brutality lost all effect beyond immediate injury. That would then create an even more volatile and dangerous situation for both the prisoners (some of whom will not be causing trouble) and the guards.

The worse prisoners are treated the more likely they are to become fractious and dangerous and the more likely it is that prisons will erupt into riot and mayhem. Especially if someone is in for a long sentence: they've very little left to lose. TVs and radios and a chance to leave their cell and learn a new skill/earn a few cents are all things they can lose. Much cheaper than trying to control them without those things.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

We get to save about $50,000 a year. Oh and it works really well as a deterrent. <dripping with sarcasm>

I would like to note that the number of federal death row inmates was infantecimally small. But as we all know, even one is too many.

To add to Redux's post. The problem with this is we cannot nor will we ever be able to legislate morality.

We're killing small babies? Are they recidivists?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I believe that is why they call it Capital Punishment. It is used for punishment.

That didnt work out so well for Cameron Todd Willingham in Texas?

Why dont the capital punishment supporters want to address the fact that system is not fail-proof? And when it fails, it cant be corrected for at least one innocent person.

Is it acceptable that even one innocent person be executed or is it just a numbers game....a willingness to sacrifice one or a few to get rid of the worst permanently?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Why dont the capital punishment supporters want to address the fact that system is not fail-proof?

I never said it wasn't.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I never said it wasn't.

So is it acceptable to you, assuming you are a capital punishment supporter, that even one innocent person be executed?

I'm not singling you out, the question is for all the capital punishment supporters.
______

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

So is it acceptable to you, assuming you are a capital punishment supporter, that even one innocent person be executed?

No. But I still fully support it for those who are convicted and deserve it. It is certainly a moral delima for the legal system and society at large.