Accomplishments of President Obama

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Lets go back to Nov 09 and start here. From the NYT:

The only part of any of those articles that referred to the CBO's numbers was the CNN factcheck that explained why their range was so wide. The CNN factcheck was using the CBO numbers to do their factcheck.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

The CNN factcheck was using the CBO numbers to do their factcheck.

Yea, that is what the defenders of this administration is using as their range, including yourself. In fact the CBO numbers are even narrower and they have said it it basically bogus.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

If you take the low end, of 800K, it looks worse than than if you take the middle or high end? Amazing how that works.

No, I said 600k. Re-read my post.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No, I said 600k. Re-read my post.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, for using the November numbers. That's why I highlighted the 8 in my correction.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

In fact the CBO numbers are even narrower and they have said it it basically bogus.

What are you trying to say here? The CBO numbers are narrower than what, and what are the CBO numbers you're talking about? Who have said what are basically bogus?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

What are you trying to say here? The CBO numbers are narrower than what, and what are the CBO numbers you're talking about? Who have said what are basically bogus?

Bogus job creation numbers of 600,000 and 1.6 million vs 800,000 and 2.4 million. Did you not even read the posts?

[TheMercenary]

It is not that, but I understand how the CBO works and how much propaganda this Administration has put out to try to cook the numbers and validate the boonedoggle of false Stimulus package.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It is not that, but I understand how the CBO works

You do? Is that from personal experience?

Like you understand how the federal budget works and what was included in the health reform legislation?

And yet you continue to misinform others, by wilfull choice or simple ignorance...and are completed blocked from any facts, opinions or findings that contradict your "understanding".

[classicman]

One thing that I found of note, was that this was sold on "jobs created" and then morphed in "jobs saved or created"
What is the difference between the two?
Does it matter?

How are they actually determining the number of jobs? That formula actually changed midstream as well. According to the way I read it. The calculation is based upon man hours. If that is the case, then 2 part timers working 20 hours a week is the same as one full time job at 40 hrs.
Again - does it matter? Whats the difference?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by classicman

One thing that I found of note, was that this was sold on "jobs created" and then morphed in "jobs saved or created"
What is the difference between the two?
Does it matter?

You can probably save more jobs with the same money than you could create, given spinup and training costs. Otherwise, there's no important difference I can see.

How are they actually determining the number of jobs? That formula actually changed midstream as well. According to the way I read it. The calculation is based upon man hours. If that is the case, then 2 part timers working 20 hours a week is the same as one full time job at 40 hrs.
Again - does it matter? Whats the difference?

Well, the reporting number ends up lower in that instance. They could claim that two people got jobs, but then be open to argument that they are part-time jobs. Reporting them as hours is probably more useful as a measurement of recovery.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

You can probably save more jobs with the same money than you could create, given spinup and training costs. Otherwise, there's no important difference I can see.

I agree completely. Thats the reason why I think the change took place from "created" to "saved or created" I'm not sure how to figure out what the real difference is between the two. It still seemed a little disingenuous to change it to include the saved jobs.
However, the optimist will say that the program was designed to do both ...
I think its REALLY difficult to put any accurate number on the saved part of the equation and gives the gov't a lot of wiggle room on their numbers. Perhaps they should report each of therm separately.

Well, the reporting number ends up lower in that instance. They could claim that two people got jobs, but then be open to argument that they are part-time jobs. Reporting them as hours is probably more useful as a measurement of recovery.

I agree, but the public is probably not savvy enough to deal with hours vs jobs.

None of the jobs data is based on federal government figures...but figures provided by the grant recipients.

And what is still comical is that you guys will fight it and fight it and never admit even the possibility that the stimulus program has created (at least) hundreds of thousands of jobs to date and helped slow the recession.

Do you even sense how rigidly ideological that is? Not to mention intellectually dishonest. Like most of your arguments.

And lately, you're great at find amusing columns or vids for a distraction so you can continue to avoid the facts.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

None of the jobs data is based on federal government figures...but figures provided by the grant recipients.

Which the Government has hung it's hat on as being factual and to date many non-governmental groups have shown them to be false or misleading, including the GAO.

And what is still comical is that you guys will fight it and fight it and never admit even the possibility that the stimulus program has created (at least) hundreds of thousands of jobs to date and helped slow the recession.

No, what is comical is that you modify your position after pages and pages of defending the lies and propaganda of this Administration and Demoncratically controlled Congress. So, now you go to "hundreds of thousands of jobs" when this country has lost millions. The numbers don't add up and your party is pissing in the wind.

Do you even sense how rigidly ideological that is? Not to mention intellectually dishonest. Like most of your arguments.

You are intellectually dishonest defending this deficit and pork barrel spending while you bankrupt our grandchildrens future with no plan to pay it off.

And lately, you're great at find amusing columns or vids for a distraction so you can continue to avoid the facts.

As you avoid the facts that counter your propaganda...

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Which the Government has hung it's hat on as being factual and to date many non-governmental groups have shown them to be false or misleading, including the GAO.

Please cite those many non-governmental groups.. GAO? Cite the section of the report, please.

I am aware of the groups that raised awareness and concern over the very small number of job reports in non-existing zip codes and attributed those clerical errors.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Please cite those many non-governmental groups.. GAO? Cite the section of the report, please.

I am aware of the groups that raised awareness and concern over the very small number of job reports in non-existing zip codes and attributed those clerical errors.

All links have been posted. Do your own homework mate.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

All links have been posted. Do your own homework mate.

I missed the links to the many non-governmental groups.

Just point me to the links.