Thank you, America!

[9th Engineer]

Can anyone name an Arab democracy? I'm not sure if they can uphold our values of freedom myself, just watch the bloodbath when we pull out. The only reason that part of the world has any power at all is because they lucked out in sitting on the worlds largest supply of oil, how long do you think their 'modern' societies would last if the oil ran out? The Arab world is still stuck in the feudal era, you can't reason with a primitive society on modern terms, they just go back to their stupid clan wars. For that matter, can anyone name what exactly they produce? They buy a hell of alot, but nothing of value that isn't burnable ever seems to come out of that section of planet.

[Undertoad]

Some Arabic countries grow some really fine coffee.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Some Arabic countries grow some really fine coffee.

Is that what they mean when they say "arobatic coffee blend"?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Engineer does raise a point: I've heard elsewhere that absent petroleum production, the rest of the total GNP of all the nations of Araby summed together compares with the GNP... of Holland. Patents applied for? -- few.

Seems like they could at least be into banking, but when you look hard into that you find some Arabs tied in knots of business inefficiency over the issue of interest.

[Griff]

I'm thinking there may be something fundamentally debasing about an extraction economy. Folks don't learn to create when the easy money is in destruction.

[DanaC]

The only reason that part of the world has any power at all is because they lucked out in sitting on the worlds largest supply of oil, how long do you think their 'modern' societies would last if the oil ran out?

Probably about as long as our 'modern society' would last if our economy and industry vanished. Civilisation is as thin a veneer here as it is there, the beast just feels further away.

I'm not sure if they can uphold our values of freedom myself, just watch the bloodbath when we pull out.

I wonder if that bloodbath will kill more, or less, than the half a million+ deaths that we've caused? Also, the clue is in your definition of freedom as 'ours'. Why would they wish to uphold 'our' values?

The Arab world is still stuck in the feudal era, you can't reason with a primitive society on modern terms, they just go back to their stupid clan wars.

As opposed to our eminently sensible, and highly technological wars.

[DanaC]

In that case why are we in the West determinedly sending our manufacturing base to other countries?

[Undertoad]

Because Britons never never never shall be wage slaves.

[Flint]

*acrobatic

[tw]

Originally Posted by Flint

*acrobatic

(aromatic)

Never mind....

[DanaC]

I'm a proud American and would like to see America survive to see another day, with the weak people who inhabit this nation we can not allow a government by the people.

You are a proud American, yet you denigrate Americans as weak and uneducated.

Very likely more, watch for the media embargo once the head severing starts though. Wouldn't want the American public to feel guilty

Even if they go on a massive decapitation rampage, I seriously doubt they'll kill as many as we have with bombs.

[9th Engineer]

You are a proud American, yet you denigrate Americans as weak and uneducated.

The vast majority are, this is not a good time to be an American.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Even if they go on a massive decapitation rampage, I seriously doubt they'll kill as many as we have with bombs.

Ah, but do not doubt that Saddam had killed far more than we before we got there.

Does anyone know how many people are killed in car accidents or from smoking each year in this country alone? Perhaps tw could provide us with that fact. I'm willing to bet it is around 50,000 per year. How bout smoking - 440,000 deaths per year - JUST IN AMERICA! That is exponentially more deaths than all lives lost due to the war in Iraq.
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
If we put the number of deaths from the situation in Iraq into perspective, I believe we may have a different outlook. The media seems to barrage us with "Another death in Iraq" every day and makes it seem much worse than it really is - relatively speaking.
Sorry I put actual facts and figures in here, but I am growing very tired of those spouting misinformation as fact. Not anyone specifically here, especially not DanaC, just in general - the media mostly.

Originally Posted by yesman065

Ah, but do not doubt that Saddam had killed far more than we before we got there.

In no way does that make an invasion & occupation of a nation that was no threat right. Ever.

[tw]

Originally Posted by yesman065

Ah, but do not doubt that Saddam had killed far more than we before we got there.

Does anyone know how many people are killed in car accidents or from smoking each year in this country alone?

Yesman065 - you claim knowledge using political beliefs. So yes, you would not have numbers. No wonder you post speculations as fact - just like your beloved Limbaugh.

Amazing is the Vietnam deja vue from right wing extremists. Since more people are killed in cars, then we should have no qualms about wasting American soldiers in a war that cannot be won? Why do right wing extremists so hate the American soldier as to advocate that political lie again? I tire of righteous anti-American extremists only doing what previous liars did to my generation in Vietnam. Shame on you Yesman065 for being so hateful of all Americans - especially American soldiers - as to speculate without bothering to first learn facts and numbers. Shame on you for lying that Saddam killed more. Shame on you for doing what others with your anti-American attitude did to justify four dead in Ohio.

Meanwhile Saddam killed about 55 per every day for 10 years. Iraqi civilian deaths only from torture and other violent deaths (dead bodies found abandon in the streets) is now somewhere between 80 and 120 Iraqis per day.

Yesman065 calls this moral? Then he also ignores thousands more dead from sewage in the streets, contaminated drinking water, no electricity, medicine shortages, and even repeated use of the same syringes. Clearly America did not create all this. Only Iraqis can be blamed for this. After all, we have wisdom from Yesman065 - who cannot be bothered to even learn numbers.

That is 80 to 120 deaths from violence and hundreds more per day from various unsanitary living conditions, unknown deaths in rural battles and air attacks, and .... well America has created far more deaths than Saddam did. Once we eliminate Yesman065 radical extremism and instead consult responsible sources (who use science), then Iraqi death rates created by "Mission Accomplished" is something around half a million. Eliminate the myths and lies from Yesman065's beloved Limbaugh and America is the bigger Satan.

Above numbers do not mention millions of Iraqi who have now left Iraq out of fear and who are living in poverty as refugees in other nations. Yes, that number is single digit millions from a country that Rumsfeld (and others here) for years have insisted is safer. Clearly they are in poverty only because it is all their fault.

Makes one wonder if it was god who chose George Jr to be president ... or the devil. We know Yesman065 approves. Shame on Yesman065 for so hating American troops as to speculate, claim that as knowledge, and not even know the numbers. Identified is a greater threat to America – just like those anti-Americans in 1970 who also so hated American troops as to ‘stay the course’; insisting that troops are expendable because more are killed on highways. Yesman065 – only the enemy of every American soldier would post as you just have. You even have the nerve to justify American deaths by citing the highway death rate - as those anti-Americans also did during Vietnam. But again we have a Vietnam deja vue. Yesman065 doing what so many did 30+ years ago to hate the American soldier.

Meanwhile, using Yesman065 logic - since more were dying on American highways that in Iraq, then Saddam really was not a bad guy. Amazing how Yesman065 can speculate because his political agenda somehow sanctifies him.