Obama - The beginning

[classicman]

Obama's Budget: Almost $1 Trillion in New Taxes Over Next 10 yrs, Starting 2011

President Obama's budget proposes $989 billion in new taxes over the course of the next 10 years, starting fiscal year 2011, most of which are tax increases on individuals.

1) On people making more than $250,000.

$338 billion - Bush tax cuts expire
$179 billlion - eliminate itemized deduction
$118 billion - capital gains tax hike

Total: $636 billion/10 years

2) Businesses:

$17 billion - Reinstate Superfund taxes
$24 billion - tax carried-interest as income
$5 billion - codify "economic substance doctrine"
$61 billion - repeal LIFO
$210 billion - international enforcement, reform deferral, other tax reform
$4 billion - information reporting for rental payments
$5.3 billion - excise tax on Gulf of Mexico oil and gas
$3.4 billion - repeal expensing of tangible drilling costs
$62 million - repeal deduction for tertiary injectants
$49 million - repeal passive loss exception for working interests in oil and natural gas properties
$13 billion - repeal manufacturing tax deduction for oil and natural gas companies
$1 billion - increase to 7 years geological and geophysical amortization period for independent producers
$882 million - eliminate advanced earned income tax credit

Total: $353 billion/10 years

[TGRR]

How is a tax cut expiring a new tax?

[sugarpop]

The capital gains tax is going up to 20%. woooo. IMO, capitals gains taxes should be MUCH higher, and income taxes should be lower. Why should money that isn't actually earned by work be taxed less than money that you physically work for?

I'm glad he's getting rid of some of the tax breaks oil companies and corporations get. yea! They don't need tax breaks. They make tens of billions of dollars every quarter. Why should they get tax breaks?

[sugarpop]

I REEEEALLY liked what he said yesterday about ending waste in government contracts. I have been bitching about that for years. So YEA! Did anyone else catch it? You can read it here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/12988730/P...s-March-4-2009

"...Obama's announcement appeared designed to counter Republican arguments that spending rather than efficiency guided his budget priorities. The president plans to cut the deficit in half by the end of his term, and he said yesterday that the results of the contracting review would save an estimated $40 billion a year. McCain and Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich) will be managing contracting reform legislation, Obama said, and William J. Lynn III, a former Raytheon lobbyist who is now deputy defense secretary, will be responsible for procurement reform.

Some government monitoring groups said Obama's decision to highlight contracting excess is nearly as important as the substance of the review itself. Danielle Brian, executive director of the Project on Government Oversight, a nonpartisan watchdog group, said that "by giving this speech, President Obama has highlighted the culture of corruption in contracting in Washington and is embracing the necessary changes to fix it." ..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030401690.html

[classicman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Why should money that isn't actually earned by work be taxed less than money that you physically work for?

Wasn't it already taxed when it was income?

[Happy Monkey]

Not the gains.

[sugarpop]

Nope. Money made off of other money. Maybe the first money invested was taxed, but like HM said, not the profits. This is another way wealthy people get away with paying less taxes than everyone else, since those at the top end up investing most of their money. And, when they lose money, they get a big fat writeoff.

[Happy Monkey]

Also, the entire notion of "already taxed" is silly. Your income is "already taxed" by the Feds when you pay state or local income tax. Your money is "already taxed" by income tax when you use it to buy goods and services and pay sales tax. The money that stores use to pay their employees was "already taxed" by sales tax on the product that the stores sold. Money is fungible; money that has been "already taxed" is exactly the same as money that hasn't. When you use that money in another way, it is subject to the taxes on that use.

[sugarpop]

I never thought about it that way, but it makes sense.

[classicman]

Well said HM - I hadn't looked at it that way.

[lookout123]

Yes, you should definitely place higher taxes on the fruits of a positive behavior. That'll teach people to save and invest more.

I find it strange that the people who most often support raising capital gains taxes are the least likely to understand how a capital gain is realized in the first place. It seems the usual reaction is 'someone has money making money??? let's take some from those rich bastards!'

[Aliantha]

I think capital gains tax is a rort. If someone owns one investment property and then sells it, they have to give half of the profit to the government, and the government taxes the shit out of you in the first place anyway.

I don't think it should exist.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Yes, you should definitely place higher taxes on the fruits of a positive behavior. That'll teach people to save and invest more.

I find it strange that the people who most often support raising capital gains taxes are the least likely to understand how a capital gain is realized in the first place. It seems the usual reaction is 'someone has money making money??? let's take some from those rich bastards!'

Or "Let's penalize people for investing in Malaysian sweatshops".

Split it between stateside investments (lower capital gains) and overseas investments (higher capital gains). Anything in a grey area to be considered overseas.

[lookout123]

Why would that be a good thing?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Yes, you should definitely place higher taxes on the fruits of a positive behavior. That'll teach people to save and invest more.

Good frigging God that says it all......