Wall Street Protests

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

Attachment 34529

That's 101%.

I'm not quibbling about the general shape of the curve, I have a specific question about the math.

Regarding the green line, the top quintile, does that include the top 1%?

If it does, then that's fine, it probably does. But that means the even the tiny bit of altitude the top quintile enjoys above the mud at the bottom is being provided by the top 1%.

I believe a picture of the top 1%, the next 19%, and then the following four quintiles would look like a solid striped bar at the bottom with the red ribbon of affluence soaring off into the heavens.

I think the graph as shown is just 20-20-20-20-20.

What it shows is that it takes 99 regular people to create one bogglingly rich person. Wait, that math's wrong too. It takes a hell of a lot more than 99.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by BigV

That's 101%.

No, the top 20% also includes the top 1%.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, the top 20% also includes the top 1%.

Yep, I figured as much. Though I have seen other comments that make the same observation I made (101?? wtf?) and used that as the reason to disregard the whole idea. Those people have already closed their minds, sadly.

[Lamplighter]

In my previous post, the REUTERS authors wrote:

Lasn [Adbusters co-founder] said
Adbusters is 95 percent funded by subscribers paying for the magazine.

"George Soros's ideas are quite good, many of them.
I wish he would give Adbusters some money, we sorely need it,
she said. "He's never given us a penny."

Apparently, Lasn is a quick sex-change person, or
reporters can't write about someone and keep their gender constant.
Here is the FORBES reporter having a go at it...

FORBES
Investing 10/14/11 @ 3:09 pm

The Brains Behind "Occupy Wall Street"
Meet the second most evilest man in the world (after George Soros).

Kalle Lasn, 69, is their quasi leader. He’s the publisher and editor of Adbusters magazine.
It’s a small, non-influential critical and artsy magazine with a decent following
of around 90,000 who call themselves “culture jammers”.
Occupy Wall Street began in the conference rooms at that Vancouver mag.

I spoke with Lasn in July, right after the new edition of Adbusters hit the news stands
with the now famous image of a ballerina balancing on the Wall Street bull. (below)

Above her head read the Twitter hashtag #OccupyWallStreet.

I'm thinking Kalle Lasn looks pretty masculine.

[infinite monkey]

[infinite monkey]

[BigV]

Meanwhile, back at the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations:

I got this report in my email today.

1.5 weeks ago, rather spur of the moment, I decided that I'd take my 16 year old son, A----n, to NYC to participate in and observe the Occupy Wall Street demonstration. He's been quite involved with local community organizing, is doing an independent study for American Government this year, and has been volunteering as an intern for Organizing for America for the past year. I thought this would be a great way for him to see a grassroots movement and also take part in what I believe will be an event written about in history books at some point. So we went.

Drawing numerous raised eyebrows, we made our way to Liberty (aka Zuccoti) Square in the financial district. I must say, we stood out, carrying backpacks complete with sleeping bags attached. We arrived at the square around 4:00 p.m. Friday. Unsure--and, let's be honest here, pretty much small town rubes--of the lay of the land, we staked out an area just large enough for the two of us to sit on as soon as we could. As it turns out, we were ideally located, close to the information table, close to where the teach-ins occurred, close to the entrance to park on Broadway. As I sort of stayed and watched our stuff, A----n went out to search out what was going on. True to form, he immeciately found food and asked for information. Meanwhile, as I sat and observed, it was announced that there was a "newcomers meeting," and we happened to miss it. I wish we hadn't, but at that time, I was really feeling unsure about leaving our stuff unattended.

A----n returned with a snack...I believe it was peanut butter on whole wheat bread, some fruit, and some Twizzlers. Around that time, a spokesperson teaching about the uprisings in Greece began to conduct a teach-in. A----n went to listen to that and I used that time to meet up with the people around us. The guy next to me as unfriendly adn very cold (I later figured out he wasn't a true demonstrator, but rather is mentally unbalanced and living on the streedt). The guys behind me were from Michigan, college students, who had taken the bus to NYC to participate and next to them was a guy from Philly and one from Indiana.

After the teach-in, A----n began to get antsy. He wanted to see what was happening and on the surface, nothing was happening. At one point, he was bored and disillusioned and wanting to leave, only we had no where to go. Our housing for the weekend wasn't available until Saturday. Friday night, we were on out own (and really not able to afford a hotel room in Manhattan). So he meandered over to the volunteer table and volunteered. He ended up passing out info flyers about the next day's meetings and working groups. And then, it was time to eat again. This time, he came back with the most phenomenal ziti with kale and awesome spices, a potato dish, some couscous, and other tasty and healthy options.

By that point, we were feeling comfortable enough to leave our possessions unguarded, so we went for a meander and discovered the People's Library, the kitchen area (complete with gray water system and composting), day care, "comfort" station which provided us with blankets to use under our sleeping bags and a pillow for my old head, and the medical area. As we walked, people all around us were carrying on (loud) conversations about politics, philosophy, hopes, dreams, and frustrations. Everyone had a story. Some were clearly idealists. Some were frustrated by their plight in life. Many were un- or underemployed. Most had done "everything right." Many, many were raised or reached the middle class. There were out of work tradespeople standing shoulder to shoulder with PhDs, one of whom had told me that she'd had tenure, but her school had eliminated the department she taught in and all the full time, tenured profs had been eliminated, to be replaced by adjuncts who only taught part time and online. Another told me she was an adjunct with two Phds....just a huge variety of people there for many reasons.

As darkness fell, A----n jumped at the opportunity to work in the kitchen area, serving food and I went back to stake our our area and figure out exactly how sleeping arrangments worked. As it turned out, it was a good thing I did. Space was at a premium. I nabbed enough bench for me to sleep on and spread out A----n's stuff next to it, and just in time, too. When we awoke in the morning every single inch of ground space around us was being used.

At that time, as people were starting to settle in, a General Assembly was starting, within mere yards of us. These events use specific hand gestures and a type of call and response known as The People's Mic in lieu of amplification. It's quite effective. That night, there were lots of announcements, health warnings, a run down of rules (e.g. no drugs or alcohol, no violence or weapons, share and share alike) a little soap boxing, etc. It went on for over an hour. It was during this that I realized that my benchmate really was more than a little unbalanced. He started yelling back and getting very angry and confrontational. Immediately, a member of the OWS security working group, called a de-escalation member, arrived and talked the guy down, very respectfully, very quietly, very peacefully. The de-escalation guy was huge, ripped, and looked like the consumate bouncer. He did not use an imposing or threatening body language or violent communication. Later the same evening, my benchmate again got violent and aggressive and a different member came over (at this point, A----n knew to whom to turn and was instrumental in heading off what could have been an ugly incident...he also did a good job talking down the woman the unbalanced man was accosting...she was very "new york" and was not going to take his lip....kudos, A----n!). This time, the de-escalation expert talked this guy to sleep.

As we all settled in to sleep, the park quieted down quiet well. It wasn't very dark and it wasn't very warm. I've slept in colder while camping, and I wasn't chilly as long as I kept my head covered (I'd packed a hat, but couldn't find it in the dark in my bag). I was on a marble bench, laying on some cardboard signs and a blanket, in my down sleeping bag. A----n, though, was on the ground, on cardboard and a foil space blanket. However, while my sleeping bag zipper wouldn't stay up, his didn't zip. So, when he'd move, he'd end up off the cardboard and on the chilly concrete, and when he'd try to move back, his bag would come open. The poor kid didn't sleep very well.

Around daybreak, I woke up and carefully picked my way through the sleeping mass to the street where I then made my way to the McDonald's which was allowing us to use their bathrooms. I returned, settled back in, and dozed off until around 6:30 or 7:00 when someone announcing morning yoga. That got people up and going A----n again went in search of food and brough back fruit and cereal and whole wheat bagels. There was another set of announcements, requests for help with working groups, a schedcule for the day, requests for assistance at a General Assembly in another park, reminders to be respectful of police and others, and the good news that there had been a donation of storage space to hold items of clothing and bedding, a sign up system for showers and laundry, and a request to help keep the park and McDonald's clean.

Shortly thereafter A----n and I decided to go see some of the city. Not being big city people, we had little we felt compelled to see. We'd seen Times Square. We'd seen the theater district. We'd ridden the subway. So we headed to a place we'd feel more comfortable...historical monuments. And we went off to see the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. Such stereotypical homeschoolers at heart, I guess. There were some other museums on our list, but the holiday weekend crowds and wonderfully warm, sunny weather had driven hoards of people into the city and we spend hours standing in line; therefore, that's all we did, and that took up four hours.

We then returned to the OWS demonstration and decided that the two of us just aren't cut out for constant noise, hustle, and bustle. We'd accomplished our goals. And, quite frankly, we needed some downtime. We'd driven to Ithaca Wednesday, arriving around 11 pm. We'd spent the first part of Thursday in Ithaca (eating at the Moosewood Restraunt), and then driven to Groton, MA where "the cousins" live, arriving around 9:30. We'd gone to bed late and then gotten up to drive into NYC Friday. And by 4:00 Saturday, we were done in. So as A----n took the remnants of the food we'd brought to the kitchen, I tidied up our bags, gave away our blankets, sleeping bags, and emergency blankets to people who were there for the long haul.

We then headed out to visit with my friend who lives in Harlem, where A----n got an insider's tour of the neighborhood by my friend's 13 yo son, and we got to eat a traditional New York Pizza Pie at the super traditional Patsey's on 1st. We got up Sunday morning, headed back uptown to meet our ride back to the Boston area, and also then had a nice brunch in Chelsea with some of my brother-in-law's friends. Yum. We then left town.

People keep asking me what my impressions were, what I observed.

Here's what I experienced and observed:

to be continued.

[BigV]

Here is the second and final part of the report from OWS:

People keep asking me what my impressions were, what I observed.

Here's what I experienced and observed:

Unlike what much of the popular media is saying, I didn't see any orgies, open sex, drugs, or alcohol use. It wasn't wild. I, small town girl from NWOhio, did not feel unsafe in any way. Yes, there were some street people, probably some junkies, some who were mentally ill....but they were being cared for and welcomed as they were, without judgement or recrminination. they were fed, clothed, and provided with minimal health care if needed.

In essence, the OWS people were doing their best to create a system similar to what they would like to see happen across the nation. People were stepping up and doing what needed to be done, based on their personal strengths and interests. There were people sweeping the park regularly as well as emptying the trash and recycling. There were people working the food line, doing dishes, and sorting clothing. There were people tending children and providing the children with age appropriate activities. There were people cleaning the restrooms in the McDonald's--and doing a better job I might add than the McD's employees. They were even tidying up the seating area of the McD's. In the morning when I got up to use the bathroom there, two homeless men who had been trying to sleep in the McD's were being evicted by a police officer. Three guys from the OWS encampment offered to take the guys over to OWS, get them some food, and find them a safe place to sleep.



I saw very, very different groups of people coming together to make things happen, able to put aside differences to work on arriving at consensus, pure consensus, not just agreeing for the sake of agreement. Arriving at consensus is not easy nor is it a fast process. It's certainly not efficient. But it can be highly effective.

I keep reading and hearing that "they" don't have a clear agenda. I think their agenda is perfectly clear, if not offically worded. It's a movement that wants less discrepency betweent the haves and the have-nots. I saw a group of people who want to fix what is wrong and getting wronger in American society.



I saw the beginnings of a movement, call it a revolution if you will. I'm certain that the Civil Right's movement didn't spring forth with Malcom X and MLK at the helm. It started with groups of people, in many places, saying "this will not do." The revolutionaries of old did not suddenly wake up with a Declaration of Independence. They hammered that document out over a period of months, which followed a period of years. THe American Revolution was a populist movement, much like this one. And it angers me to see relatively bright people saying that nothing is being accomplished. It's been a month, folks. No well thought out movement is full grown in a matter of weeks.



I also saw people from every age group working together and living peacefully. All races. All nationalities. There was another mother with her 16 year old son camped near us. A grandfather and his 13 year old grandson on the other side. Graduate students behind us. A woman at least in her 60s woke up around the time I did. I had to help her off the ground. She was a bit stiff. There was a woman who was in end stage cancer. A yogi. A nurse and a teacher. There was a "red hat brigade" and three women who had signs saying that they'd been retired for 20 years and were angry. One had a sign that said, "I didn't spend 33 years of my life teaching kids to think to have them ignored by their government" and another had a sign that said, "USA, don't make me liar...let them have the opportunities to be whatever they want to be."

I saw young people volunteering to clean toilets. I saw young people sweeping the sidewalks.

Some were dread lock wearing, drumming, incense burning hippies. Some were wearing Hollister. Most would not raise eyebrows on any street.

I saw young people writing, speaking, and reading. People were sharing literature. No one was asking for money. People were sharing.

So, yes, very revolutionary. I saw hundreds (maybe thousands? I have no clue) of people behaving in ways that would make any reasonable mother proud.

I saw a microcosm of what the USA should be like. I saw hope.

[Lamplighter]

Sorry V, some time back I declined reading through long posts
that were only links or copy/paste postings.

How about a synopsis or some comments, or why you're posting it...

more to come ?

[BigV]

Here's another similar chart from a reliable source, the Congressional Budget Office. Notice these percentages don't add up to more than 100 percent.

Cumulative Change in Real After-Tax Average Income

Growth in after-tax income has been uneven across the income distribution, with upper-income groups seeing more rapid growth than lower-income groups. Much of that increase reflects the pattern of before-tax income growth

[classicman]

Here ya go Lamp....
There were lots of different, divergent people there. They were mostly nice.

[BigV]

I posted the whole thing because it's genuine. It shows a real person and her son. It is about their experience in traveling from NW Ohio to Wall Street. They found it kind of scary at first, but then settled in. They were taken care of by the others around. It is an account of a vastly disparate group of people, all looking for things to change. Note, not for the same thing, this is not a herd of dittoheads. She says:

I keep reading and hearing that "they" don't have a clear agenda. I think their agenda is perfectly clear, if not offically worded. It's a movement that wants less discrepency betweent the haves and the have-nots. I saw a group of people who want to fix what is wrong and getting wronger in American society.

and she saw that happening in person among the people present:

In essence, the OWS people were doing their best to create a system similar to what they would like to see happen across the nation. People were stepping up and doing what needed to be done, based on their personal strengths and interests.

She saw lots of very different people and she was left with a sense of hope:

I saw young people volunteering to clean toilets. I saw young people sweeping the sidewalks.

Some were dread lock wearing, drumming, incense burning hippies. Some were wearing Hollister. Most would not raise eyebrows on any street.

I saw young people writing, speaking, and reading. People were sharing literature. No one was asking for money. People were sharing.

So, yes, very revolutionary. I saw hundreds (maybe thousands? I have no clue) of people behaving in ways that would make any reasonable mother proud.

I saw a microcosm of what the USA should be like. I saw hope.

[Lamplighter]

Thanks to both of you... now I'll go read V's posts with a better attitude

[Undertoad]

Here's another similar chart from a reliable source

What is the X axis?

[BigV]

Time.

The years from 1979 to 2007.