Politicians who are legitimately stupid rarely get elected.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Akin

He described the response to his comments as a "little bit of an over-reaction", saying he had mistaken "one word in one sentence on one day".

from your link.

ORLY?

let me guess, that word is "legitimate"? no? "rape"? "woman"? "pregnant"?

I actually can't guess.

What *one* word would change this whole thing around?

[Cyber Wolf]

.

[henry quirk]

The Owner of The Couch forum posted this…

http://www.springerlink.com/content/wp5cnp43k6byxj4d/

…the abstract of which is this…


Is a given instance of rape more likely to result in pregnancy than a given instance of consensual sex? This paper undertakes a review and critique of the literature on rape-pregnancy. Next, it presents our own estimation, from U.S. government data, of pregnancy rates for reproductive age victims of penile-vaginal rape. Using data on birth control usage from the Statistical Abstract of the United States, we then form an estimate of rapepregnancy rates adjusted for the substantial number of women in our sample who would likely have been protected by oral contraception or an IUD. Our analysis suggests that per-incident rape-pregnancy rates exceed per-incident consensual pregnancy rates by a sizable margin, even before adjusting for the use of relevant forms of birth control. Possible explanations for this phenomenon are discussed, as are its implications to ongoing debates over the ultimate causes of rape.

[DanaC]

Wow. That's fascinating.

[BigV]

mornin hq

I didn't buy the paper for 40 bucks, so, I don't know what it says. But with respect to pregnancy from rape rates, I've heard from sources I found credible numbers around 5%. So, it's not vanishingly small. And by comparison, pregnancy from consensual sex might be the same or higher (conceivably lower--hehehehe I said conceivably), but, so what?

Poor brother Akin's remarks were not so inflammatory just because of the rate, which he apparently underestimates by a good margin, but because it reveals a huge gap between his understanding and reality. He compounds this error (ignorance is only an original sin, and curable) by doubling down in all his follow up statements. He does eventually say that people do get pregnant from rape, but this is really just the last veil stripped from his true belief. No abortion because the innocent child should not be punished.

That's a noble notion, but his claim that a fertilized egg is a child is unsupported by everything I know. The urge to cue Monty Python's "Every Sperm Is Sacred" as their theme song is almost as irresistible as the claim is ridiculous. Though I can't find a cite right now, it seems clear that this is Akin's position.

[henry quirk]

"I didn't buy the paper for 40 bucks"

Me neither...the abstract is all I got too. As to what it says, the abstract gives a sufficient overview to work with, hence my suggestion 'make of this what you will and can'.


#

*"a huge gap between his understanding and reality"

Agreed.









*it's the gap my posting of the abstract addresses...Akin believes a woman's flesh is capable of distinguishing between consensual and nonconsensual sex...he believes the flesh can then 'act accordingly'.

If the paper the abstract is drawn from is accurate, then, one potential and unsettling conclusion is a woman's body may indeed distinguish between consensual and nonconsensual sex and, in 'acting accordingly' may become more fertile (or receptive to insemination).

I offer no moral, ethical, or even personal assessment here...just offering up the nugget for each to do with as he or she will.

[henry quirk]

I googled this...

"Are per-incident rape-pregnancy rates higher than per-incident consensual pregnancy rates?"

...the title of the paper and abstract, and found this...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...n-other-women/

"As to why rape victims would have a higher rate of pregnancy, the Gottschalls put forward a few theories. They look at previous research, which suggests that men are more attracted to women who are fertile and ovulating. In consensual sex, women can decline sex at a time where there might be a high likelihood of pregnancy. That’s not the case in rape."


I prefer the above explanation(s) to the (again) unsettling notion rape could be biologically or evolutionarily beneficial.

In any event, as V says, "(there is) a huge gap between (Akin's) understanding and reality".

[infinite monkey]

Akin's comments echoed as far away as the Democratic Republic of Congo, where award-winning playwright Eve Ensler penned a powerful open letter titled, "Dear Mr. Akin, I Want You to Imagine..."

Akin isn't giving up The U.S. author of "The Vagina Monologues" wrote that she was lying awake at 2 a.m. in Bukavu in the City of Joy in the Congo where she was working to support "thousands of women who have been raped and violated and tortured from this ceaseless war for minerals fought on their bodies."

"Mr. Akin, your words have kept me awake," she wrote, before explaining what it means for women who have been raped to hear him make the distinction between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" rape.

"The underlying assumption of your statement is that women and their experiences are not to be trusted. That their understanding of rape must be qualified by some higher, wiser authority," she wrote, before imploring him to imagine someone "violently, hatefully forcing themself into you so that you are ripped apart."

On a more serious note, Brooks wrote: "What strikes me about the anachronistic attitudes of evangelicals and their Republican puppets to abortion, contraception, family planning, female economic empowerment and feminism in general, is just how unambiguously male these attitudes are.

"An entire political party in one of the most advanced and educated countries on earth has become a caricature of the most basal evolved insecurities about masculinity. They seem terrified of losing control over the means of reproduction and petrified of cuckoldry," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/22/world/...html?hpt=hp_t2

[piercehawkeye45]

I can get the article for free (yay public university!) but I'm not going to post it for legal reasons. PM if interested.

[BigV]

If the paper the abstract is drawn from is accurate, then, one potential and unsettling conclusion is a woman's body may indeed distinguish between consensual and nonconsensual sex and, in 'acting accordingly' may become more fertile (or receptive to insemination).

... you were doing much better before this edit.

My theory for why the rate of pregnancy from consensual sex might be lower is that there's just a lot more sex going on, period (hehehe, I said period). Since there is just one chance for pregnancy per month, that rate gets... diluted when there's so much more non-baby making sex is going on.

[henry quirk]

So: I don't get an A?

*shrug*

[infinite monkey]

I can't believe we're having discussions about the scientific validity of that pasty old white man's statement, when all over the world cats are sneaking into babies' cribs and stealing their breath!

--a public service announcement brought to you by Old Husband's Tales, Inc.

[henry quirk]

Everyone knows the babies are askin' for it.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I can't believe we're having discussions about the scientific validity of that pasty old white man's statement, when all over the world cats are sneaking into babies' cribs and stealing their breath!

--a public service announcement brought to you by Old Husband's Tales, Inc.

Ohhh, Infi you insensitive bitch. That was low. You know damn well that my cat's breath was stolen by a baby in the towers on 9/11.
--a public service announcement brought to you by Tired Old Internet Memes, Inc.

[infinite monkey]

Ch'yeah. Now get in the kitchen, baby, and make me a sandwich.