I know everyone's tired of Guantanamo bay... - Page 3

queequeger · 09-17-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

You don't approve of religious bigotry, do you, Happy Monkey? Are you quite certain you don't? All of the good liberals should be shooting at these bastard hyenas' sons on those grounds.

Also, I don't approve of religious indoctrination camps for evangelicals. Can I shoot them? How about white supremacists? let's shoot them on those grounds?

Happy Monkey · 09-17-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I don't see how anyone of sense could call it "irrelevant." It's central to the Administration's entire conduct of this war against a shadowy, intercommunicative enemy.

I know that breaking the law is central to the Administration's strategy, but that is irrelevant when trying to justify it.

Quote:

If the enemy communicates to coordinate, that is where they are vulnerable. We can't stymie nor defeat them unless we find ways to know their plans and their thinking, hmmm?

Then get a goddamn warrant.

Quote:

I'd further point out that neither Happy Monkey nor anyone else, anyone else at all, has come up with a way to prosecute this war that is any different or any better -- better meaning that we, the democracies, are likely to win.

Better international policework. It is not possible to fight "terrorism" with military force.

tw · 09-17-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I'd further point out that neither Happy Monkey nor anyone else, anyone else at all, has come up with a way to prosecute this war ...

Let's see. Torture only made more enemies. Extraordinary rendition only made enemies even of America's friends. Lying that we are winning "Mission Accomplished" only made "Mission Accomplished" worse. "We are where we are" only got more Americans killed and created a country of 25% refugees. IOW this war has been prosecuted doing what Urbane Guerrilla recommended. As a result, even bin Laden roams free. Urbane Guerrilla does not even call for bin Laden's capture. Everything has happened according to UG's plans.

A shadowy enemy? Of course. When using fictional descriptions of an enemy, it can only exist in shadows and cannot be defeated.

DanaC · 09-17-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

A shadowy enemy? Of course. When using fictional descriptions of an enemy, it can only exist in shadows and cannot be defeated.

Succinctly put tw.

Urbane Guerrilla · 09-18-2007, 02:00 AM

The same was true of the Second World War by early 1943, as far as number of casualties goes in taking the fight to the enemy, Queg. Thinking in this quota-fashion is yet another road to defeatism. That is a road I will not walk, and I urge a similar course for you: the war's opponents are just so shockingly fatuous that I find their arguments ridiculous in the extreme. How do our casualties invalidate our cause? I'm not armchairing this -- I had nine years in military service myself, and my wife is retired career military. I think I have some idea what it means to be on the sharp end. (It's risky.)

I'm not so sure I'd call them faceless, and "they" are certainly motivated towards assailing us on several bogus grounds -- like doing the right thing by Israel. At the moment, they are having considerable trouble coming up with the means to attack us on our own soil, but there was a day when they did have the means, did they not? Has there been any magic to demotivate these foes? Hell no; it's all hard work.

As I've remarked elsewhere, the strategy for defending us is that of reducing the Gap. Two of the Gap nations are Afghanistan (very likely to remain a Gap nation for a very long time owing to just about zero national consciousness, more simply put as a lack of unity and scant motivation towards it) and Iraq (some of the same problem, and perhaps some radical solution will be the only tenable one -- though I'd personally like to see a confederation evolve to keep Iraq's three major ethnicities from being Finlandized by their neighboring states).

Bringing Gap nations out of the Gap and into the world's global economic Core calls for several things to happen: democratization of the sociopolitical order, education not determined by gender, and trade, cultural, and communicative connectivity with the rest of the planet. The Gap nations get called that because there's a gap between their cultures and economies and the global economy.

Urbane Guerrilla · 09-18-2007, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Let's see. Torture only made more enemies. Extraordinary rendition only made enemies even of America's friends. Lying that we are winning "Mission Accomplished" only made "Mission Accomplished" worse. "We are where we are" only got more Americans killed and created a country of 25% refugees. IOW this war has been prosecuted doing what Urbane Guerrilla recommended. As a result, even bin Laden roams free. Urbane Guerrilla does not even call for bin Laden's capture. Everything has happened according to UG's plans.

A shadowy enemy? Of course. When using fictional descriptions of an enemy, it can only exist in shadows and cannot be defeated.

I've said before you couldn't be constructive if somebody gave you a hammer and two hacks of 2x4s, tw. You're running true to form.

Oh, you can tell how many more enemies we've got because we lean on some bad guys -- as either hard numbers or a percentage increase? You must be privy to some remarkably secret information not available to mere mortals then. Let's do the sensible thing and dismiss this contention as unprovable.

Bin Laden is nice to get -- but do you really think the bad guys will quit if we get him? I don't really. For that would be fictional.

And of course, tw, no strategist, isn't coming up with improved strategy, owing to his want of constructiveness.

Urbane Guerrilla · 09-18-2007, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queequeger

Also, I don't approve of religious indoctrination camps for evangelicals. Can I shoot them? How about white supremacists? let's shoot them on those grounds?

Queg, you're fairly new here, but if you're up for some research, you'd find that no one here has ever succeeded in baiting me, and you can add this try to the list of failures. To succeed in baiting me would first require reducing my age by two thirds, and then my IQ by a third. Sound at all likely?

DanaC · 09-18-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Queg, you're fairly new here, but if you're up for some research, you'd find that no one here has ever succeeded in baiting me, and you can add this try to the list of failures.

lol

queequeger · 09-18-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Queg, you're fairly new here, but if you're up for some research, you'd find that no one here has ever succeeded in baiting me, and you can add this try to the list of failures. To succeed in baiting me would first require reducing my age by two thirds, and then my IQ by a third. Sound at all likely?

Yeah, you're pretty much the most awesome poster on teh intarwebs. Are you serious when you say things like this? You sound like a cartoon super villain.

Ibby · 09-18-2007, 09:03 AM

Holy shit, queermeister! (sorry but thats more or less how I read your name. Coming from me, thats more praise than ridicule)
You've done it!

Youve put into words exactly what UG calls up in my mind. I havent been able to but this into words before, but you've done it, man!

Quote:

Originally Posted by queequeger

You sound like a cartoon super villain.

skysidhe · 09-18-2007, 10:25 AM

that's funny

Urbane Guerrilla · 09-18-2007, 10:42 AM

And my opposition mostly sounds like wimpy, weedy fascist sympathizers, or else so completely welded to idees-fixe as to come off unhinged. Is it any wonder I put 'em down? Is there anything else they could deserve?

DanaC · 09-18-2007, 11:36 AM

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Urbane Guerilla is American Dad!

skysidhe · 09-18-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

And my opposition mostly sounds like wimpy, weedy fascist sympathizers, or else so completely welded to idees-fixe as to come off unhinged. Is it any wonder I put 'em down? Is there anything else they could deserve?

Just sounds like something you do for fun to me. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Urbane Guerilla is American Dad!

oh no don't say DAD!

American dads are watching football and drinking beer ? Is that was UG does in his off time?

nah...
The super human comic book villain fits better.

Urbane Guerrilla · 09-18-2007, 12:17 PM

I'm certainly not going to deny that I enjoy it. The ultimate end is still human betterment, however dimmed that hope might be.

09-18-2007, 02:00 AM	#35
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	The same was true of the Second World War by early 1943, as far as number of casualties goes in taking the fight to the enemy, Queg. Thinking in this quota-fashion is yet another road to defeatism. That is a road I will not walk, and I urge a similar course for you: the war's opponents are just so shockingly fatuous that I find their arguments ridiculous in the extreme. How do our casualties invalidate our cause? I'm not armchairing this -- I had nine years in military service myself, and my wife is retired career military. I think I have some idea what it means to be on the sharp end. (It's risky.) I'm not so sure I'd call them faceless, and "they" are certainly motivated towards assailing us on several bogus grounds -- like doing the right thing by Israel. At the moment, they are having considerable trouble coming up with the means to attack us on our own soil, but there was a day when they did have the means, did they not? Has there been any magic to demotivate these foes? Hell no; it's all hard work. As I've remarked elsewhere, the strategy for defending us is that of reducing the Gap. Two of the Gap nations are Afghanistan (very likely to remain a Gap nation for a very long time owing to just about zero national consciousness, more simply put as a lack of unity and scant motivation towards it) and Iraq (some of the same problem, and perhaps some radical solution will be the only tenable one -- though I'd personally like to see a confederation evolve to keep Iraq's three major ethnicities from being Finlandized by their neighboring states). Bringing Gap nations out of the Gap and into the world's global economic Core calls for several things to happen: democratization of the sociopolitical order, education not determined by gender, and trade, cultural, and communicative connectivity with the rest of the planet. The Gap nations get called that because there's a gap between their cultures and economies and the global economy. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

09-18-2007, 10:42 AM	#42
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	And my opposition mostly sounds like wimpy, weedy fascist sympathizers, or else so completely welded to idees-fixe as to come off unhinged. Is it any wonder I put 'em down? Is there anything else they could deserve? __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

09-18-2007, 12:17 PM	#45
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	I'm certainly not going to deny that I enjoy it. The ultimate end is still human betterment, however dimmed that hope might be. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

09-18-2007, 10:25 AM	#41
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	that's funny

09-18-2007, 11:36 AM	#43
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I've said it before, I'll say it again: Urbane Guerilla is American Dad!

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