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Old 01-15-2016, 07:53 PM   #1
tw
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Lead bottom and water

No it is not McHale's Navy.

Flint Michigan has lead contaminated drinking water because known contaminations were ignored at highest levels of Michigan government. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Ask if this Governor comes from where the work gets done or is trained in cost controls and business school concepts.

Governor Snyder was a CPA and an accountant in Coopers and Lybrand. Then he ran a computer company Gateway; well known for shipping in 'cow boxes' and inferior computers sold on price and cost controls - not quality. (Gateway's tech support was particularly inferior.) Snyder then moved on to found an Ann Arbor venture capital firm. His entire life has been finance and money manipulation. He acquired the Governor's office in Jan 2011. His MBA comes from U of Michigan. But he started taking business courses at the age of 16. Business school training has been his entire life.

In 2011, Snyder essentially assumed operations in Flint Michigan. Starting in March 2013, his appointee, Earley, switched to water from the Flint River even though that water was not used previously because it was too corrosive. Earley rejected Detroit water (Flint's water supply for 50 years) because it costs more money. Residents quickly noticed bad taste, discoloration, and smells. Complaints were ignored - since complaints and water quality do not appear on spread sheets.

In 2015, Flint filed papers 'proving' there was no lead, smells, or discoloration. Documents later exposed no such testing was conducted. Obviously. Top bosses were business school graduates.

A study by Hurley Medical Center pediatricians exposed widespread and serious health problems especially in children. A Virginia Tech civil engineering professor (Edwards) in cooperation with local doctors exposed those business school graduate lies. Investigators further encountered stalling and coverup by 13 Flint public officials including Earley and other Governor appointed officials.

Edwards' was shocked by how high those lead levels were AND by stalling, denials, and inaction by government officials. Of course. Edwards is a product person. Therefore a patriot. He encountered what business school graduates are trained to do - ignore reality and worry instead about costs. Also called anti-Americans. Trained to protect the bosses; screw the people.

Flint government officials continued reciting this reply,"Repeated testing indicated the water tested within acceptable levels."

A smoking gun, irrefutable evidence in Edwards' report, was released to the public on 11 Jan 2016. This recently exposed attack on public health demonstrates again why business school graduates create so many failures. They were intentionally harming the public and denying facts only in the name of business school rationalizations. They even made excuses about aging pipes hoping that would divert attention from criminals negligence. Anything to protect the bosses, money and to cut costs. The people be damned.

Organizations such as the ACLU. large numbers of volunteers (scientists, investigators, graduate and undergraduate college students), and money from the Michigan Freedom of Information Act were required to expose politicians who were not doing their jobs.

Also suspected in that 'less expensive water' is Legionaires' disease which spiked after Flint instituted cost controls on their water supply. Another fact ignored by people who do not come from where the work gets done. After all, if Legionaires' disease was not definitively proven (only statistics said it existed), that proved a threat could not exist. Same reasoning by business school types also murdered seven Challenger astronauts. Do we never learn from history?

In October 2015, Flint water added an anti-corrosion chemical to counteract resulting massive lead levels. System damage is so extensive that Flint water still remains a threat to public health - 3 months later. Lead is only one problem. Maybe that would have been obvious to top management if any of them came from where the work gets done.

Many so remain naive as to insist this was only an accident. Same logic also protected the guilty in both the Challenger and Columbia murders. In Three Mile Island. In Fukishima, etc. If the boss does not come from where the work gets done, how can he be a leader or boss? He cannot.

Mismanagement in Flint is a felony. But too many are trained in business school lies; purpose of everything is profits and cost controls. Business school philosphies also claim it was an accident - including a study that was later exposed to have never existed.

Governor Snyder finally conceded. Long after the Red Cross suffered exhaustion trying to deal with the Flint water disaster. Michigan National Guard was deployed this week to relieve the Red Cross - who was there only because top Michigan politicians (ie the Governor) refused to admit to a problem they created.

Meanwhile, Snyder still refuses to release any documents relating to how much he knew and when he know it. It almost worked for Nixon. It worked for George Jr. What else could he do since it was his people and his denials that let this major human health issue fester.

Snyder recently started blaming subordinates such as Department of Environment Quality Dan Wyant. Wyant's MBA is from American University. He is also trained in ignoring reality, ignoring how the work gets done, and lying.

Lead, bottom line, and water.
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Old 01-16-2016, 05:07 AM   #2
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Fascinating and disturbing.
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:17 PM   #3
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Michigan's renowned industry (autos) have done harm to the American economy for 40 years - when business school graduates (bean counters) replaced car guys. We have discussed this often. Many have denied without offering a valid alternative. Business schools teach maximizing profits even at the expense of the product, employees, consumers, and public. That trend (made so obvious in the CBS TV show Undercover Boss) exists far beyond the auto industry. It is why Flint Michigan has major lead contamination problems even after they converted back to safer Detroit water.

That contamination could have been averted had bean counters added an anti-corrosive additive as even required by Federal laws for water safety (that wacko extremist Republicans tried to block). That is over 100,000 people who cannot take a shower without suffering contamination.

We know all was created to cut costs - the mantra of a management educated in business schools. We know that same mentality even denied and refused to fix for 14 years Chevy Cobalts were murdering people. It is a problem repeatedly demonstrated in Michigan.

And so we have another example. Teachers in Detroit had a massive sick out for one simple reason. Business school graduates have used cost controls to destroy the Detroit school system. One would think spread sheets would have reported this problem years ago. They did. Does not matter. Concept from business schools teach how to manipulate spread sheets so they "say what they have to say". Detroit schools have long had mold problems, rats, heating problems, insufficient student materials (ie books), and ... Well the state (Governor) has been running Detroit schools for so many years as to run up a $3 billion deficits.

Why does accounting let a problem fester for so long as to run up a $3 billion deficit? Well one reason is found in warning back in 2003 when Mission Accomplished was promoted by wacko extremists.

The Indian economy is worth $2 trillion. The Chinese economy is worth $13 trillion. George Jrs extremist administration spent something less than $3 trillion on Mission Accomplished - a war unjustified by any honesty. And so we see one major reason why Detroit's schools have problems. Rather than face facts, they used business school graduates to hide it.

Infrastructure and education problems (that will create serious reduced American productivity and living standards) will appear on spread sheets in ten years. Patriotic Americans understand that. Business school trained extremists have only made problems worse to do what is taught in business schools - enrich yourself. They even converted Chevrolet into an anti-American product. They have even made showers in Flint a threat to human life.

How does one ignore bills for so long as to become a $3 billion deficit? Never forget who was running things. Mission Accomplished and an almost 1929 recession was created by George Jr. A business school graduate from Harvard. So we have stopping spending on things that made America great. Then Gov Snyder - a business school graduate from U of Michigan - and Department of Environmental Quality Wyant - MBA from American University - instituted cost controls while covering up massive deficits.

They intentionally ignored Federal regulations (what is only minimally need) for water treatment to cut costs. Did it for years despite widespread complaints from residents and warnings from scientists.

What they did is not a felony. It is legal for business school graduates to do great harm, enrich themselves, and not get blamed.

Who was the financial manager (put there by Gov Snyder) of Flint when that decision was to switch water supply to cut costs? Darnell Earley. He then took a new job last year - as the state's financial manager for the Detroit school system. Is he only doing what is taught in the business schools? Or more likely, he is doing what the Governor has ordered him to do - cut costs. The product be damned.
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Old 01-20-2016, 07:12 PM   #4
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Infrastructure and education problems (that will create serious reduced American productivity and living standards) will appear on spread sheets in ten years.
You have always said that about the failure of the levees in New Orleans in 2005.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:24 PM   #5
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You have always said that about the failure of the levees in New Orleans in 2005.
Leeves in New Orleans were only designed for a Category 3 hurricane. Katrina was a Category 5. Leeves there did what they were designed to do.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:00 AM   #6
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What's happening in Flint is dreadfully sad for the people affected by it.

But, chapter 327 of tw's "I hate MBAs" treatise aside, I still don't completely understand the retrospectively obvious conclusion that the Flint River was not/is not an acceptable source of intake water. The "nobody used it for 50 years because it is corrosive" argument doesn't explain much.

Intake water for a lot of municipalities is corrosive. And polluted. And laced with discarded medication and on and on. Intake water is supposed to be treated to remove these impurities before it is delivered to the citizens. Is the argument that Flint's water treatment facility sucks so we better start with clean water where this begins?

But one thing that tw and I might agree on is that officials in whom the public has the right to trust and who violate that trust should be held to account and, in some cases, made an example of.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:03 AM   #7
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Yes, I'd say pitchforks and torches are appropriate.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:01 AM   #8
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Flint poisoned?! How's Pooka? [\Emily Litella]
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Beestie View Post
Intake water for a lot of municipalities is corrosive. And polluted. And laced with discarded medication and on and on. Intake water is supposed to be treated to remove these impurities before it is delivered to the citizens. Is the argument that Flint's water treatment facility sucks so we better start with clean water where this begins?
They switched to Flint River water to save $100 a day.

Treating the water would have more than offset those savings.
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Beestie View Post
But one thing that (everyone) might agree on is that officials in whom the public has the right
to trust and who violate that trust should be held to account and, in some cases, made an example of.
Yep, who wouldn't agree with that - aside from the guilty parties?
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Beestie View Post
Intake water for a lot of municipalities is corrosive. And polluted. And laced with discarded medication and on and on. Intake water is supposed to be treated to remove these impurities before it is delivered to the citizens. Is the argument that Flint's water treatment facility sucks so we better start with clean water where this begins?
Some of the cleanest water is available in nearby Lake Huron. Less treatment - less costs. But that means making decisions based upon the product. Cheaper is to take corrosive water from the Flint River and not treat it (as required even by Federal law). The product (and consumers) is irrelevant to business school graduates. Decisions were made only on costs and spread sheets.

If Flint River water was treated as required, then costs would increase - not decrease. That violates then entire purpose of making decisions based on money. Need we remember this same decision process killed seven Challenger astronauts?

More Michigan state administrators resigned today. Wind dummies to protect the boss - Govenor Snyder. Anyone remember Bridge Gate and Gov Christie?

Some cleanest water seen is the Delaware River above Port Jervis (above New Jersey's northernmost point). Even when water was clearly getting dirtier in the 1980s, it was still rated class A water (cleanest) by the National Park Service. During Clinton's administration, this water clearly got cleaner again.

Philadelphia does not tap the Delaware River. It is too dirty. Schuykill River is cleaner. So what happens between Port Jervis and Philadelphia to make water bad?

Treatment does not sufficiently remove many nastys such as medications, minerals (ie lead), etc. Ph levels can be adjusted to within 0.1 by required chemical treatment. In some cases (maybe also in this one), a cheaper chlorine may be used, again, to save money. That chemical can increase lead contamination.

Management did not come from where the work gets done. So decisions were made to harm Flint residents. Had they used a gun, it would have been called attempted murder. But because it was finance people, it was only called a mistake.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:30 PM   #12
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Philadelphia does not tap the Delaware River. It is too dirty. Schuykill River is cleaner.
I have looked into this before... half of Philadelphia water comes from the Delaware.



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Old 01-21-2016, 06:34 PM   #13
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I took a tour of the Belmont plant some years ago - the whole process of turning river water into clean drinking water is fascinating.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:10 PM   #14
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I have looked into this before... half of Philadelphia water comes from the Delaware.
That would be when enough water cannot be provided by the Schuylkill River. Note contamination levels. Highest contamination is from the Delaware River. Cleanest is from the Schuylkill. Delaware is used mostly when additional water is needed.

Water is fungible. That map is simply a ball park estimate when all plants are fully operational. Water from the Delaware needs more treatment - costs more. Whenever possible, Philadelphia uses cleaner (and therefore less expensive) water from other two plants.

Observe water approaching Philly's cleanest plant. Expect to see a dead body in it. That is Philly's cleanest water?

So again, what happens between Port Jervis and Philadelphia?
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:14 PM   #15
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I just saw one of the Michigan administrators who resigned due to Flint. He looks just like Tim Conway.
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