Car question

[BigV]

that's the check engine light override knob, isn't it?

[footfootfoot]

Yep. And the better ones go all the way up to 11...

[glatt]

Wise guys.

So I checked the factory manual. I hadn't been able to find the right section before. But I found it. They list 26 separate things to check for a rough idle like mine. The O2 sensor is one of them. This could take a while.

[HungLikeJesus]

By the way, is that engine fuel-injected, or carbureted? If the latter, maybe it's a jetting issue.

[BigV]

Have you ever read "Shop class as Soul craft" tw? You might benefit from it. It's about an ivy league college graduate (probably an mba to boot) who's taken up motorcycle repair. He finds a sublime pleasure in diagnosing the trouble in a poorly running machine, kind of like glatt's situation.

I ask if you've read it because there's a thought expressed in the book I think you'd appreciate. The author says that there's an absoluteness to the machine. That despite the theoretical, the documented, the machine doesn't really care. That it is up to the mechanic to observe, to listen to what the machine is telling him, and then respond accordingly, even if it is contrary to "the book".

When you say things like "spark plugs and wires and caps and rotors never need replacement" I just roll my eyes. I don't know anybody who has any actual wrench time that would say such a thing. No one who has spent time actually working on cars would ever entertain such a ridiculous notion in a situation like this. Maybe, maybe in a theoretical discussion of what a perfect world would be like, etc. But come on. That's not what glatt's dealing with. His car's running roughly in some conditions and it is completely reasonable to think that a misfiring cylinder because of a bad spark plug could cause this, as an example.

If you're just ranting, rant on brother. But you're not giving much practical help here with proclamations like that.

[tw]

Originally Posted by BigV

The author says that there's an absoluteness to the machine. That despite the theoretical, the documented, the machine doesn't really care. That it is up to the mechanic to observe, to listen to what the machine is telling him, and then respond accordingly, even if it is contrary to "the book".

So stop reading so much theory. Learn from those who were edcuatd by reality. So many cars (even in the 1960s) were fixed by learning this stuff the hard way. In the 1960s (due to bad designs), spark plugs and wires had to be replaced constantly. When one who mocks your theoretically trained author, instead, designed an installed an electronic ignition in a 1960s car, then spark plugs never needed changing. How many engine systems did your guru design? How often did he also trace failures back to the source by learning from the hardware?

So many religiously trained mechanics preach, "But the car has a heart". Many are recommending tune ups and wheel alignment only because it increases their income. All cars (even GM) no longer have nor need tune ups. But then I a stating this because I not only know this stuff by doing it. But also designed parts or traced failures to defective designs.

Any car that needs spark plugs, wires, or cap in 200,000 miles was probably something designed by a bean counter in GM. Even GMs parts can not longer fail as frequently as they once did only due to Federal laws.

Listed where the more likely suspects. Only those being scammed by a mechanic need replace spark plugs, wires, or cap even in 100,000 miles. What was once required every 5000 miles or three months was obsoleted decades ago when EPA rules made current technology required in all cars.

[BigV]

My main point is when you say "should never fail" I have to edit it to read "probably isn't the cause of your problem, but ...". It irritates me.

[glatt]

My wife reports that it's not doing the rough idle today. A couple days ago she filled the tank with the super premium gas because she had an 80cents off code from the grocery store. Hmm. Don't know if those two facts are related. I need to continue the observations.

[ZenGum]

TW, I think you need to read Big V's post again.

It may well be that spark plugs should never need replacing, that's the theory. Each car is it's own independent reality, and we've got to allow for the fact that quality control was pared back by MBA managers to save money, and that the car was built and serviced by humans. You know, those frail, irrational bags of mostly water?

It's like with the paperless office discussion. You're not allowing sufficiently for human fallibility.

[tw]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

It may well be that spark plugs should never need replacing, that's the theory. Each car is it's own independent reality,

Last time I looked, Limbaugh was being sponsored by spark plug companies. Sandusky recently said to take a defensive position. Replug annually to avoid infant mortality.

[glatt]

The scheduled maintenance for this car makes no mention of changing the spark plugs, but for cars that routinely tow, it says you should change the plugs every 30k miles.

I had read several years ago that plugs today are really good, and that you could go 100k miles on them (or more) but they get to be very difficult to remove if you wait that long to switch them out, so consider switching them out sooner than that.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

TW, I think you need to read Big V's post again.

It may well be that spark plugs should never need replacing, that's the theory. Each car is it's own independent reality, and we've got to allow for the fact that quality control was pared back by MBA managers to save money, and that the car was built and serviced by humans. You know, those frail, irrational bags of mostly water?

It's like with the paperless office discussion. You're not allowing sufficiently for human fallibility.

Did the outside temp change? My money is on the O2 sensor.

[footfootfoot]

Human? What's that?

[HungLikeJesus]

We should all bet on it, and whoever is right gets to pay for the repairs.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

We should all bet on it, and whoever is right gets to pay for the repairs.

Loose wire.