Is the Cellar actually cliquey?

Griff · 09-27-2007, 07:27 AM

Jeb got me thinking about this again, because he said nobody lit up Lj when he crossed a line. Then I read this from UG:

Quote:

We all know what happened to you the last time you tangled with me, rkzen, and xoxoxoBruce.

Those three guys have agreed on exactly one issue by my recall, but apparently when they came together it was a little intense. The Cellar can be rough, but I think its rough on everybody to the extent that they're willing to argue a dissenting opinion strongly. I think we group up around ideas more than people, but I've been wrong before. Thoughts?

Spexxvet · 09-27-2007, 07:49 AM

Yes, it's cliquey.

Spexxvet · 09-27-2007, 07:56 AM

Let me add to that. I think that there are some folks that get treated differently than other folks. It might not be a clique, per se, but when two people do the same thing, one often gets a pass, the other gets hammered. And it seems to be the folks getting the pass and doing the hammering.

TheMercenary · 09-30-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Let me add to that. I think that there are some folks that get treated differently than other folks. It might not be a clique, per se, but when two people do the same thing, one often gets a pass, the other gets hammered. And it seems to be the folks getting the pass and doing the hammering.

What he said.

Cloud · 09-27-2007, 08:14 AM

don't know; and I pay no attention to such things, even if it is

but it certainly can be quite mean

glatt · 09-27-2007, 08:33 AM

When talking politics, I think we mostly group up by ideas, rather than people.

But some people over time have shown themselves to be lacking reason, and they seem to be ganged up on often.

Flint · 09-27-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

But some people over time have shown themselves to be lacking reason, and they seem to be ganged up on often.

I attack sloppy thinking. Anyone else who does the same could, loosely, be considered part of some kind of "group" I suppose. Of course, I get attacked for my own sloppy thinking as well, as I should, and I welcome that as a learning experience.

If 10 people were telling me the same thing, I might think there was something to it. However, If I could demolish all 10 of their arguments, I would still say "ƒuck all 10 of you" ... I would never think of them as a "group" of ten people, though. Just 10 individuals.

Spexxvet · 09-27-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

When talking politics, I think we mostly group up by ideas, rather than people.

But some people over time have shown themselves to be lacking reason, and they seem to be ganged up on often.

Gang, or mob mentality?

It usually breaks down to side A, which acknowledges that side B has a different opinion, and tries to convince their side B that side A's opinion is correct, and side B, who thinks that side A is lacking reason.

Radar · 09-28-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

When talking politics, I think we mostly group up by ideas, rather than people.

But some people over time have shown themselves to be lacking reason, and they seem to be ganged up on often.

I've never shown myself to be lacking reason, and I'm often ganged up on by various cliques.

Clique A) Those who support economic freedom but not personal freedom...aka Republicans/Fascists/etc. who want to tell you whom you may marry, what medicines you may take or medical procedures you may have, which religious doctrine you must follow, etc. These people don't think you're adult enough to decide for yourself what you should be able to do with your body.

Clique B) Those who support personal freedom but not economic freedom...aka Communists/Socialists/Hippies/etc. who think you aren't adult enough to know how much to spend on insurance, charity, education, retirement, etc. so they want to decide that for you and will decide how much of the money you earned will go toward these things for you, and for your neighbors, and for people you don't even know.

One or both of these cliques always hates me because I'm for all freedoms all of the time and I always mention common-sense, rational, reasonable, intelligent, realistic, and workable solutions to our problems which don't require force or coercion to exist.

Spexxvet · 09-29-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

....One or both of these cliques always hates me because I'm for all freedoms all of the time and I always mention common-sense, rational, reasonable, intelligent, realistic, and workable solutions to our problems which don't require force or coercion to exist.

I don't hate you for those reasons. I may disagree with your opinions, but I don't hate you for them. I hate your belittling, demeaning attitude toward those who don't agree with you. Starting a statement with "you're too stupid to understand this" or something of the sort is the way an asshole starts a statement.

DanaC · 09-27-2007, 08:38 AM

Cliques form, break off, reform and change. It is a community. Other boards are (to my mind) less rounded than the Cellar...yes people get nasty with each other, but those same people are usually ready to shelve hostilities when their erstwhile enemy is posting about something they are having problems dealing with.

Any community that doesn't involve some kind of powerplay and jostling, be that overt or not, isn't a rounded one. This is what human beings do when they congregate. We are very clever apes.

Flint · 09-27-2007, 09:04 AM

If you're lacking in ƒucking reason, you just are. It has nothing to do with the specific subject, or opinion; it's about a method of thinking, IE do you employ internal quality control on your ideas before launching them? The people (A/B) who do this get very irritated with the people (A/B) who don't.

glatt · 09-27-2007, 09:44 AM

What Flint said.

I tend to dismiss people who lack reason, and find them annoying if they hold the same opinions I do. They make me feel dumb by association.

Although I should thank them because if I see clearly that they lack reason, then I can question my own reasons for holding the same opinion and see if they are rational ones.

lumberjim · 09-27-2007, 10:06 AM

pull my finger!

Urbane Guerrilla · 09-27-2007, 10:10 AM

Spexx and Glatt are right: our associations form around ideas, and I'm in agreement with Flint about what to do about sloppy thinking.

Three isn't much of a mob, though. More of a trio. Cliques are more permanent and to my mind more exclusive than what I see going on around here.

For instance, if I were to write posts only in threads started by or containing The Mercenary, Yesman065, or Slang, and they posting likewise, plus threads containing me, that would be cliquish.

09-27-2007, 07:49 AM	#2
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Yes, it's cliquey. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

09-27-2007, 07:56 AM	#3
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Let me add to that. I think that there are some folks that get treated differently than other folks. It might not be a clique, per se, but when two people do the same thing, one often gets a pass, the other gets hammered. And it seems to be the folks getting the pass and doing the hammering. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

09-27-2007, 08:14 AM	#5
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	don't know; and I pay no attention to such things, even if it is but it certainly can be quite mean __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!" Last edited by Cloud; 09-27-2007 at 08:29 AM.

09-27-2007, 09:04 AM	#12
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	If you're lacking in ƒucking reason, you just are. It has nothing to do with the specific subject, or opinion; it's about a method of thinking, IE do you employ internal quality control on your ideas before launching them? The people (A/B) who do this get very irritated with the people (A/B) who don't. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

09-27-2007, 10:06 AM	#14
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	pull my finger! __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

09-27-2007, 08:33 AM	#6
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	When talking politics, I think we mostly group up by ideas, rather than people. But some people over time have shown themselves to be lacking reason, and they seem to be ganged up on often.

09-27-2007, 08:38 AM	#11
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Cliques form, break off, reform and change. It is a community. Other boards are (to my mind) less rounded than the Cellar...yes people get nasty with each other, but those same people are usually ready to shelve hostilities when their erstwhile enemy is posting about something they are having problems dealing with. Any community that doesn't involve some kind of powerplay and jostling, be that overt or not, isn't a rounded one. This is what human beings do when they congregate. We are very clever apes.

09-27-2007, 09:44 AM	#13
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	What Flint said. I tend to dismiss people who lack reason, and find them annoying if they hold the same opinions I do. They make me feel dumb by association. Although I should thank them because if I see clearly that they lack reason, then I can question my own reasons for holding the same opinion and see if they are rational ones.

09-27-2007, 10:10 AM	#15
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Spexx and Glatt are right: our associations form around ideas, and I'm in agreement with Flint about what to do about sloppy thinking. Three isn't much of a mob, though. More of a trio. Cliques are more permanent and to my mind more exclusive than what I see going on around here. For instance, if I were to write posts only in threads started by or containing The Mercenary, Yesman065, or Slang, and they posting likewise, plus threads containing me, that would be cliquish. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 09-27-2007 at 10:19 AM.

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