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Old 09-20-2020, 05:18 PM   #61
sexobon
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You missed your calling as a stand-up comedian.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibby View Post
of course he won't attempt it, but its still absolutely astonishing that he would "joke" about it
not really. He has zero sense of humor, just doesn't get it, but has realized it's kind of essential for public office and general bonhomie, so is trying to fake it...... but in true spirit can't help but try and exploit the concept at the same time. Now he's figured out people -especially those who are natural jokers- sometimes pass off outrageous comments that didn't go down well as "jokes" it's Donny open season and he's trying hard to establish a reputation as a "joker" to help with that.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:02 PM   #63
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It's a specific type of persuasion which causes everyone everywhere to think and speak of him every minute of every day. This is the game. I point this out at least once a year. It's a specific tactic to attract attention and suck the air out of the room for anything else. It is trolling. The media falls for it 24x7. And in this thread we are suckers once again. We do his bidding.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:41 PM   #64
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Well sure, it's the only way we can get to see more of Ivanka...

and maybe a pardon if we ever need one.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:51 PM   #65
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The words of the President of the United States matter.

They are worthy of our attention, by virtue of the office from which the President speaks.

That President Trump has corrupted this valuable and potent aspect of the office of the President of the United States is a testament to his shame. That he has disgraced this office by his words and actions, my office, my public servant, is a black mark against him, his responsibility for his words and actions. I am offended by his behavior, even if some characterize his behavior as "jokes". Even if his behavior is "trolling". I have higher standards. This country and the office of the Presidency has higher standards.

I'm not perfect, I'm a regular person. I don't consider his "jokes", his "trolling", his actions to put his name and words and face in my headspace, appropriate to the standards of the office to which he's been elected. This, *obviously*, is not an isolated or even uncommon example. It is pure, plain Trump. It is demonstrable, repeated, documented evidence of his unfitness for the office he currently holds.

Let me ask you, do you tell rape jokes? Do you casually, "just joking", talk about using your legally owned weapons to "do something" about his opponents? Do you jokingly talk about any of the factually ridiculous suggestions President Trump has repeatedly made? Would you accept without comment reports that your son has talked about "grabbing them by the pussy".

He does live in my head, but not rent-free. There's a cost, and it's accumulating, though I don't expect to collect until he's out of office. He is a troll. He is unfit for office. His actions do not have a viable path forward.
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:54 PM   #66
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and jokes matter. the rise of the internet neo-nazi is built on the power of "jokes" to normalize atrocious behavior and to give plausible deniability. its all just jokes except when it isnt. its all just jokes, except when it's violent fascist rhetoric meant to fan the flames of unrest and violence under the thin veneer of "just joking" when the "libs get triggered" or whatever. thats just as true when the president does it as when pepefan1488 the channer nazi does it.
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:59 PM   #67
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The People disgraced the office of the President long before Trump ever got there. People have been treating the office of President like it's a throne to be handed down by political royals like the Kennedys (Camelot), Bushes, Clintons, and there was even talk of the Obamas. People are so easily lulled into letting an elite class make all their decisions for them. The prominence of the office needed to be taken down a few notches to discourage that kind of thinking by abating the conformity to political correctness that faux royalty demands. Trump served that purpose. Whether or not it will be successful, only time will tell. Let the would-be royalists fall by the wayside.
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:18 PM   #68
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i hate to like, have to agree with sexobon, but yeah, the office of the president was never special and never anything but the place for the most ambitious and most corrupt to aspire to. i have a little hope that this whole national ordeal will maybe help some people see why maybe having a political structure that depends on our leaders not abusing it is a mistake and why The Presidency Is Bad but we've got a long way to go to get to that
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:35 PM   #69
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weak people are easily trolled and trolls and shitposters understand and depend on this

so ~ stop being weak ~

buck up, enough with all this self-generated misery, resentment and paranoia

and jokes are essential. and btw nobody wants to spend time around someone who is humorless

and that's for good reason
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:50 PM   #70
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"if you have a problem with a fascist politician employing fascist rhetoric to inflame violence and rally support, you're weak, and its all just your problem, also you're no fun and have no sense of humor" isn't as compelling an argument as you seem to think is it. if there's anything they depend on its people who would never call themselves fascists, defending them the way you are now.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:36 PM   #71
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define fascist
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:52 PM   #72
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a short answer would be "a political position or form of government characterized by nationalism, authoritarianism, racial/ethnic hierarchy (white supremacy), and a perception of a state of constant struggle between races/'nations' in which the strong not just will, but must, win in conflict against other 'nations'.", but since no short answer won't get a smug reply from you,
I tend to think that Umberto Eco's essay on Ur-Fascism is pretty comprehensive. it's a long essay, but i'm going to quote liberally from it here.

Quote:
But in spite of this fuzziness, I think it is possible to outline a list of features that are
typical of what I would like to call Ur-Fascism, or Eternal Fascism. These features cannot
be organized into a system; many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of
other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to
allow fascism to coagulate around it.

1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition. [...]
2. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism.[...] In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.
3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake.[...]
4. No syncretistic faith can withstand analytical criticism. The critical spirit makes
distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific
community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge. For Ur-Fascism,
disagreement is treason.
5. Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity. Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks for
consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference. [...]
6. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration. That is why one of the most
typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class[...]
7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only
privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country. This is the origin of
nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its
enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot,
possibly an international one.
[...]
9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. Thus
pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare. [...]
10. Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally
aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak.
Ur-Fascism can only advocate a popular elitism.
[...]
13. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say. [...]
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:53 PM   #73
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oh, actually, wikipedia has a really good short definition that it attributes to Stanley G Payne:
Quote:
1. the "fascist negations": anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism;
2. "fascist goals": the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire; and
3. "fascist style": a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership
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Old 09-21-2020, 12:07 AM   #74
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well gosh and you suggest i have defended such a thing
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Old 09-21-2020, 12:11 AM   #75
Ibby
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i suggested trump wants (small-l) liberals to defend his fascist rhetoric as meaningless, unimportant jokes that are actually not as bad as the people who care that he said them, yeah
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