My Kid is a Damn Nutter

[Sundae]

I know it's not a popular opinion here, and for any lurkers or newbies - no, I do not have children.

What it seems to me is that you have a very intelligent and articulate son.
He is at an age where he is exploring the giddy boundaries of what he can do to change the behaviour of the people around him.

I like doing this! Wow! If I keep doing this I will make them do it too!
It's almost like a troll, but with no malicious intent - it is all about patterns.

My brother shrieked having his teeth cleaned for years. My parents just manhandled him without trying to find out why. I very much doubt this is the correct response and certainly it distressed my sister and I (and probably caused us some fear of our parents). So I can't answer that one.

But for the rest, I can't see that some sort of request, warning and punishment system can't work. It would simply help him to bring his behaviour into line with what society in general would expect.

Mini-Clod - sing this, sing that
Clod - No, Mummy is busy right now
Mini Clod - NO - SING THIS SING THAT!
Clod - No. We will sing it when Mummy is ready - you'll go into time out if you keep asking
Blah blah blah I know you'll know the Naughty Step and Time Out and all that guff already.

Of course it might be true that you have a child with a disorder that cannot be modified by anything other than drugs, special schools, hospital visits and years of help. Crikey, Clod - I really, really hope not and I hope you look at everything else first.

You might want to try giving behavioural modification a chance - for at least 6 weeks. After all if your son does have any of these conditions, it is what he will have to be taught in the long run. And if he's just exuberant and bright, he'd be better off with them anyway.

Disclaimer - although as I said I don't have children and don't want them, from the age of 6 I watched my mother struggle with my brother, who tested eligible for MENSA when he was in primary school. Everything was a battle. Everything. As an adulty I think a bit of give and take (about not wanting to wear anything but blue) and a bit of ask-explain-threaten-punish might have gone a long way. Instead it all involved me - the middle child - because I hated all the fuss, the special treatment (SO UNFAIR!) and the noise.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

It's almost like a troll, but with no malicious intent - it is all about patterns.

You're absolutely right, it's about patterns, but he's not actually demanding that I sing, the way a kid would normally say, "Do this for me!" He doesn't even let me finish the songs the majority of the time. It's just a chant he starts and then gets stuck on. He doesn't get more intense, or more frustrated if I don't respond--he just keeps going. He'll chant to himself if I'm not in the room. I complete his phrases for my own sanity, because so far it's the only way for him to move on from the thing he's stuck on. (He does, however, get extremely frustrated if I give the wrong response.) He's grouped his books into seemingly random units that must be "completed" too--for example, if we read the Curious George firetruck book, we have to read the Tonka dump truck book too. (And it's not because they're both about vehicles, he has dozens of that type. I personally suspect it's because they're both mostly yellow.) Those books cannot be read individually, no matter how many other books we do or don't read.

[lookout123]

Maybe I'm missing something in here but I don't really see a problem in here. Kids are kids.

He rejects the concept of brushing his teeth, and we have to physically restrain him every single night to get it done. At no point has he shown any acceptance that this is going to happen, despite complete consistency on our part.

Lil Lookout until he was five. Otherwise bizarrely aware of hygene, just didn't like the toothbrush. He grew out of it.

He compulsively chants snippets of songs and catchphrases at me all day long, and will say his half again and again nonstop until I repeat what he has said to me, or whatever complementary phrase I'm supposed to say. One typical progression goes (exactly) like this:

I remember Lil Lookout doing this. His were television jingles and kidzbop stuff though. I think he was three. He still loops on lyrics but doesn't require any outside intervention unless I'm especially tired of hearing a particular lyric. He is always singing or humming. always.

If at any point in these scripts I don't respond, he just keeps chanting his last line over and over and over until I do. I have gone so far as to lock him out of the bedroom to try to break the cycle. 20 minutes later I emerged, and he immediately picked up right where he'd left off.

Again Lil Lookout. If he asks a question at night (usually a stalling technique) that I don't answer he WILL wake up with the question on his lips.

His newest thing this winter is he won't wear long sleeves. Even if it's 40 degrees outside. I figure when he gets cold enough he'll put on his jacket, right? So far he's still stubbornly holding out, and his elbows and arms are red and chapped by the end of each day.

LL is 7 and hates long pants with a bloody passion. complete freakout. Even visiting in illinois during winter he wears shorts. (but so do I when I can get away with it.) he had to wear jeans for a school function today and it was a 30 minute fight. There is no logical reason other than he just doesn't like them. OK.

One of his favorite activities is "drawing with crayons." This consists of taking each of the 100+ crayons out of the box and lining them up on the table in front of him next to the big coloring book. He does not actually ever draw in the book, but it has to come out with the crayons all the same. When they are all lined up, he is done. Usually he tries to color-coordinate them as well, pulling all the blue ones out first, etc.

2.0 behaves like this. he is only 21 months now but a very very active problem solver. he likes to take things apart and organize the pieces. if left on his own he will take Lil Lookout's big box of star wars toys and line the men and weapons up by shape and color order. He calls that playing. (at least the way he says "playing") He does the same with dvd boxes, shampoo bottles, etc. He'll actually go into the cabinets and reorganize the tupperware into well defined order. strange to me, but it's his thing.

I'm certainly not dismissing your concerns and would certainly support the suggestion to have him tested, but I wanted to point out that nothing you've described is really that out there. Kids are kids and they all have their own quirks and stages. I will say this, though. Everytime (so far) Lil Lookout has picked up a quirk that was really bugging me to the point of being a REAL problem it would fade away on it's own.

chin up, mom - you've got a boy.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by lookout123

chin up, mom - you've got a boy.

Thats exactly what I was thinking! Seemed too simplistic a response though.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by lookout123

He does the same with dvd boxes, shampoo bottles, etc. He'll actually go into the cabinets and reorganize the tupperware into well defined order.

That's not a boy, that's a House Elf.
Send him around, will you, the place is a mess.

[limey]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

That's not a boy, that's a House Elf.
Send him around, will you, the place is a mess.

[Clodfobble]

Wanted to add that I didn't take your suggestions indignantly--I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of kids' problems are directly traceable to pushover parents. We are, if anything, more authoritative with him than we have been with the other kids, because I know he responds well to very defined and immobile boundaries. Give him an inch, he'll want to take a mile. After enough consistency, he's usually pretty good about accepting that this is "just the way things are." Of course, God help us if we then need to change the pattern ourselves, because it isn't happening.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of kids' problems are directly traceable to pushover parents.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to parents - or something like that.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by classicman

85% of all problems are directly traceable to parents - or something like that.

I think it's, 85% of all parents forget they're top management.

[ZenGum]

A lot of this sounds like classic autism behaviour, especially getting stuck in loops and insisting on certain routines.
If it is, it will be a challenge but it's not a disaster. Accurate diagnosis and appropriate management will make all the difference. Best of luck with the little fella.

[Ruminator]

I see Clod. Wow man, this has all got to be wearing you down.

Get the little guy checked out Clod, definitely.

[glatt]

I've got nothing terribly insightful to add, just that from the description, this sounds like more than just your standard 2 year old nutty behavior and you should discuss it with your pediatrician at the next opportunity.

[lookout123]

Could be. I've been accused of being simple more than once in my life.

[Juniper]

Having a kid with a disorder like autism or asperger's does not mean the only way to deal is with drugs and other special means. Unless the problem is severe - and I doubt it, even if there is some of this happening with mini-clod - it usually IS treated with behavioral modification.

Diet modification too. Sometimes odd behaviors in children (and probably adults as well) are caused by allergies or sensitivities to food, such as gluten, wheat products, artificial dyes, etc.

That said, if his quirks don't interfere with happiness, safety and daily success, there's nothing wrong with being a bit of a nutter.

That's what I keep telling people who don't understand me!

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by lookout123

chin up, mom - you've got a boy.

Well at least I know he'll be good at soccer.

Seriously, I'm eagerly waiting for him to hit three, when all the little kid sports become available to him. We are always looking for ways to burn off the energy. He can choose any sport he wants, as long as it isn't (American) football.