Guns don't kill people ....

[classicman]

Originally Posted by BigV

your analogy about power tools is a good one. I'm careful when I use them, but I'm careful anyhow.

Says the man who used a chainsaw on a ladder like Conan ...

Originally Posted by Griff

Spex who posted about his kid sneaking around town with a airsoft rifle leading to a policeman at the door?

Originally Posted by spexx

But I wouldn't to characterize it as a "very dangerous activity".

Therein lies the problem. Guns are NOT toys - even fake ones. Especially as dusk or the waning hours of daylight. What he did was not only "very dangerous" it was incredibly stupid. VERY LUCKY to have not been met by an overzealous neighbor or rookie cop.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Yes xoB, I'm familiar with this NRA program, and would favor it being used more.
But presentations are pretty scarce events as far as they go
... and it are often one-time presentations for any particular group of kids.
Again, with all their $, does the NRA really need to charge for the materials.

Radio and TV PSA's would reach many more kids, their parents, and the people who have guns in their house.

Repetition is one key to learning, and it's not just kids who need to learn gun safety.

They don't do a traveling dog & pony show, they're making a structured program available for local initiatives. Really the only way it can be effective is getting the parents involved. Otherwise they send their kids to one of these presentations, like they would to the Saturday matinée, and won't have a clue what the kid saw, or retained. Plenty of parents could use the training too.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

Therein lies the problem. Guns are NOT toys - even fake ones. Especially as dusk or the waning hours of daylight. What he did was not only "very dangerous" it was incredibly stupid. VERY LUCKY to have not been met by an overzealous neighbor or rookie cop.

You're right. Better get those handguns away from "overzealous neighbor"s. I guess they didn't have guns, or they would have shot, instead of calling the cops.

[henry quirk]

I have limited time and haven't been through the (whole) thread, so this may have been addressed already. If not...


Folks have been known to off others with all manner of things (baseball bats, razors, hammers, guns, fists, etc.).

If Joe kills one, ten, 100, with an item, the item should then be restricted or regulated for every one else?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

I have limited time and haven't been through the (whole) thread, so this may have been addressed already. If not...


Folks have been known to off others with all manner of things (baseball bats, razors, hammers, guns, fists, etc.).

If Joe kills one, ten, 100, with an item, the item should then be restricted or regulated for every one else?

Please cite an incident in the US where a mass of innocent people have been massacred by an American with anything but a gun.

[henry quirk]

"Please cite an incident in the US where a mass of innocent people have been massacred by an *American with anything but a gun."

9/11: Twin Towers.

*shrug*

Not relevant to my question.









*yes, not Americans, I know, but living here, working here, etc.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"Please cite an incident in the US where a mass of innocent people have been massacred by an American with anything but a gun."

9/11: Twin Towers.

*shrug*

Not relevant to my question.

Not an American. Should have gone McVeigh/OK city for the win. Explosives are illegal.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"Please cite an incident in the US where a mass of innocent people have been massacred by an *American with anything but a gun."

9/11: Twin Towers.

*shrug*

Not relevant to my question.









*yes, not Americans, I know, but living here, working here, etc.

How about the happy practice of giving the Native Americans blankets infested with small pox?

[henry quirk]

"Not an American."

Yeah, I said that.

#

"Should have gone McVeigh/OK city for the win. Explosives are illegal."

Wasn't going for 'the win', was answering your question, "Please cite an incident in the US where a mass of innocent people have been massacred by an American with anything but a gun.” The legality of the instrument was not part of the question. However, since you bring it up: yes, explosives are illegal...fat lot of good that did for OK City...

Again: all irrelevant to my question which I'll rephrase since I think it's poorly constructed.


>If Joe does something stupid, bad, or inhumane with an item, why should Jack be punished by way of restrictions on that kind of item?<

[piercehawkeye45]

How about rephrasing the question in a less biased way.


Every action an individual takes, no matter how large or small, affects the environment around that individual. At what point should society decide that restricting an individual's action benefits society more than not restricting the action?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

You're right. Better get those handguns away from "overzealous neighbor"s. I guess they didn't have guns, or they would have shot, instead of calling the cops.

You think he would have been the first? Perhaps your attitude would be different... or not.

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Not an American. Should have gone McVeigh/OK city for the win. Explosives are illegal.

Not the Ammonium nitrate he used. Its a common fertilizer. The rest, maybe.


from Wiki ...
" The Oklahoma blast claimed 168 lives, including 19 children under the age of 6 and injured more than 680 people.
The blast destroyed or damaged 324 buildings within a sixteen-block radius,
destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings.
The bomb was estimated to have caused at least $652 million worth of damage."

AND NOT ONE GUN USED.

[BigV]

Some guns were used in this:

Constable, civilian, gunman confirmed dead after shooting near Texas A&M campus

COLLEGE STATION, Texas—Three people, including a Brazos County constable, died Monday when a gunman opened fire near the Texas A&M campus in College Station, according to investigators.

The gunman and another civilian were also killed, police said.

A female civilian, 55, was also shot and was rushed to the hospital, where she underwent emergency surgery. Her condition was not known.

The suspect was shot by responding officers and later pronounced dead. The name of the 35-year-old gunman has not been released.

[BigV]

No gun here, people still died.


Woman stabs boyfriend in neck during argument

HOUSTON—A man died after his girlfriend stabbed him in the neck during an argument, according to police.

Same here:

Bride stabs, kills fiancé hours before wedding in Philadelphia

PHILADELPHIA —
A bride-to-be was sent to jail on her wedding day after police said she stabbed her fiancé twice and killed him

It's true, people kill people, and they're creative in their choice of weapons.

[henry quirk]

ph45,

You really think your rephrasing is less biased that either of my versions?

My iterations are neutral; yours drips with bias.

#

"Every action an individual takes, no matter how large or small, affects the environment around that individual."

Demonstrably not the case.

If Joe, who lives alone, masturbates himself to sleep every night, how does this affect anything (other than his bedsheets)?

Your rephrasing trades precision and accuracy for bias.

#

"At what point should society decide that restricting an individual's action benefits society more than not restricting the action?"

I'd say you restrict the individual when the individual does something worth being restricted for...that is, when he or she commits a crime. To restrict (action, ownership, etc.) before hand, in anticipation of a crime, well, defend that position if you can.


>And 'my' question stands (rephrased yet again): If Joe does wrong, with bare hand or with gun, why should Joe’s actions affect Jack's hands or Jack’s ownership of a gun?<

[Rhianne]

It shouldn't. But when Joe, Jim, Bob, Harry, Fred, Susie, Steve, Kenny and Eric do it too I think it would be responsible to think about it at least.