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Old 11-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #46
xoxoxoBruce
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Originally Posted by Flint View Post
I'm telling you "parents, Doctors, some adult is calling the shots for the kid" is wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.
No ethical doctor is going to act on the kids say so without the parent (or court/authority) ordering it.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:04 PM   #47
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Or on the parent's say-so against the kid's wishes (except to do nothing).
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:14 PM   #48
xoxoxoBruce
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When I was 16 I knew every goddamn thing, spent the rest of my life proving I had forgotten it.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:49 AM   #49
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i got a divided mind on this stuff...

on one hand: i don't give a flip what people do to themselves (no matter how stupid or delusional) as long as i'm not payin' for it or are bein' forced to participate

on the other: kids are dumb, wild animals that need harnessing...we don't let 'em jump off the roof but we will let 'em hormonally, surgically mutilate themselves?

it's a barrel of rattlesnakes: there's no easy way to get to bottom of it
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:52 PM   #50
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NO goddamnit we DO NOT allow kids to do that.
NOBODY is doing that and NOBODY is saying we should.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:06 PM   #51
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NO goddamnit we DO NOT allow kids to do that.
NOBODY is doing that and NOBODY is saying we should.
So: no minors are allowed to take any kind of hormone or hormone-alterin' treatments to affect gender appearance, and no minors are undergoin' any kind of sex/gender alterin' surgeries, yeah?

Well then: what's the big whoop?

If minors can't monkey 'round with the structure of their bodies in any real way, then all they can do is play dress up, yeah?

Again: what's the big whoop?
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:09 PM   #52
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There's no big whoop, it's all much ado about nothing.
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There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:14 PM   #53
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There's no big whoop, it's all much ado about nothing.
So: this thread is just a waste of time, yeah?
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:11 PM   #54
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For balance, or whatever, here is an account of a woman transgendered long term. More comfortable in her own skin, absolutely no regrets whatsoever. Faces the dumb rejection of (some) family and others,
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:32 PM   #55
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Also of note, suicide statistics. These would belong in Happy Monkey's "do nothing" category. Unless there is an equally compelling outcome on the other side of the equation, I'm really at a loss to see an opposing argument.

Unless, *checks notes* ahh yes, trans people "make me feel icky"
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There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:51 PM   #56
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Trans people don't make me feel icky - I was actively supportive of a small group of trans people who were campaigning in my borough for better access to health services and a less obstacle laden path to transition for those that need it, back when I was a local councillor.

I do have concerns about children going through this stuff - and so, seemingly do quite a few trans people, going off some of the youtube commentators.

Having those concerns does not equate to being anti-trans. But that is where the argument always ends up: if you question the current approach in any way you are denounced as anti-trans - even if, like a few commentators i have seen, you are yourself transgender.

This, right here, is why the issue is of concern - because it is far too politicised.

There's a really nasty anti-LGBT and in particular anti-trans streak in some of the discourse especially coming from the right - and that needs watching, but lumping any questioning into that makes the entire topic toxic
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:54 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Trans people don't make me feel icky - I was actively supportive of a small group of trans people who were campaigning in my borough for better access to health services and a less obstacle laden path to transition for those that need it, back when I was a local councillor.

I do have concerns about children going through this stuff - and so, seemingly do quite a few trans people, going off some of the youtube commentators.

Having those concerns does not equate to being anti-trans.
This is the problem I have. My youngest kid (24 years old) is transgendered and has been since age 16. He has no intent of physically transitioning to a male body, mostly due to medical issues.

So believe me when I say I have no beef with transgender people, even if I still screw up the old pronouns now and again.

But my limit is right about here, with medical procedures being done on children. I can see both ends of the argument, but I don't know enough about the medical risks to be okay with a minor transitioning.
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:00 PM   #58
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There. Are. No. Medical. Procedures. Done. On. Children.
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******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:02 PM   #59
Luce
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Quote:
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There. Are. No. Medical. Procedures. Done. On. Children.
Then that simplifies things greatly, and there is no issue at all.
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:02 PM   #60
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This now falls into the realm of "don't tell people what to do."
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