Bush links Hezbollah to Ali-Q

[JayMcGee]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4787207.stm



I really can't believe you guys voted for this dick-head.

[9th Engineer]

Tell me just what about the article you think is stupid then.

[JayMcGee]

'Linking their actions with insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, he said they all wanted to "establish safe havens from which to attack free nations". '


The aim of Hezbollah is to derstroy the state of Israel. Other nations, free or otherwise, are outside of its remit.



"He says that as well as intelligence efforts to foil terror plots against US civilians, the ongoing military campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq are part of that same battle, as is Israel's conflict with Lebanon. "

Israels attack are aimed at Hezbollah rocket launching sites.

Afgahnistan was home to the Taliban, who sheltered Ali-Q

Iraq supposedly had WMD's that could be unleashed on the UK within 45 minutes.



These are, to most intelligent people, disparate facts.

How do you make the linkage?

[9th Engineer]

Although they don't all have the same objectives, these groups often supply each other with weapons, shelter, or inteligence. Hez may not be making plans to launch rockets against the UK or US once they're done with Israel(I'm sure they'd take the chance) but I'm sure they would continue to use their influence to help other Islamic groups who are. Each one we wipe out is progress.

[tw]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Although they don't all have the same objectives, these groups often supply each other with weapons, shelter, or inteligence. Hez may not be making plans to launch rockets against the UK or US once they're done with Israel(I'm sure they'd take the chance) but I'm sure they would continue to use their influence to help other Islamic groups who are. Each one we wipe out is progress.

Embarrassing that a 'big dic' attitude would proclaim a blanket 'they are all evil' attitude. Many Islamic groups do (or at least did) talk to Americans. Many openly define who is a valid target and who is off limits or more of a friend. Once Americans could even walk into the Bekaa Valley as Israeli warplanes attacked Syrian troops; and be welcome as friends. Of course you knew that before assuming they are all evil? Apparently not.

Amazes me how many now see enemies everywhere. Amazes me how many do as UT does - automatically label Israel as the good guys and Islamic or Arabic organizations automatically evil. It really would help for so many to first learn the region.

Extremists among us routinely define Hezbollah as something equivalent to bin Laden. Those without any knowledge parrot that brainwashing.

Who was welcoming Israelis into Lebanon with flowers and rice when Sharon (illegally) attacked even Beirut? (*) Do you remember? And if not, then how do you know who is good and evil?

Those same people who welcomed the Israeli army with flowers and rice became Hezbollah because of what the Israeli army then did to those people. Hezbollah stands as defenders of Lebanon; was created as a result of continued Israeli assaults on Lebanese Shia. Hezbollah has no interest in attacking the US. Did you first learn facts and details; not the propaganda that, for example, UT routinely proclaims.

You know the difference between Hezbollah and Hamas? (*) You better long before any opinions are formed. Especially now that George Jr - champion of the mental midget - proclaims enemies everywhere. Hamas and Hezbollah are completely different. Do you know why? (*)

Hamas also has rules about not harming Americans. How can this be when Syria and Iran finance these organizations? Guess what. UT routinely uses the Rush Limbaugh 'simplistic' logic to hype good and evil. But then such Rush Limbaugh logic works when some fail to first learn details such as history.

Learn who they are long before making these blanket assumptions. Asked were some questions above - followed by (*). If you got any answer wrong - and this was real basic stuff - then you have not clue about the Middle East. If you got even those most basic questions wrong, then you are fodder for George Jr brainwashing about enemies everywhere.

And then it gets so much more complicated. My longer posts hardly scratched the surface. And yet every detail in those longer posts should be common knowledge if you have enough information to make assumptions about who is good and who is evil.

Did your eyes glaze over because you had already decided who is good and who is evil? Or are you easily recruited to the dark side - Cheney Doctrine - because learning facts is too hard; because it is so much easier to jump to conclusions. There is little difference between George Jr and the Emperor in Star Wars - except that the emperor knew how the universe actually works and was not told his agenda by Dick Cheney.

Get a grip. If you think for one minute that Hezbollah is your enemy, then so are the people of Europe, Japan, China, Russia, India .... Remember the principles upon which our current government operates. If necessary, we should be prepared to attack Germany, India, or Russia. Why do you worry about Hezbollah?

Did you eyes glaze over even with this short response? Then how do you expect to know who is good and who is bad. This was the executive summary of the abridged report after government censors editted it. And yet it is too complex? Welcome to the Middle East - where once Americans were warmly welcomed even in Syrian dominated Bekaa Valley. Again, why did you not know this?

[JayMcGee]

each what you wipe out is progress?

hezbollah has no axe to grind againt the US or UK, and neither does Hamas.

You (and your insane president) are confusing regional organisations with limited objectives with the real threat of global terrorism by ali-q.

They are seperate and distinct threats..... treat the regional one as global and you will indeed have a gobal war on your hands.

[9th Engineer]

He who aids my enemy is my enemy. All of these groups are in contact with each other and help each other achieve their goals. The biggest and most obvious hub right now is Iran, which is the real target we need to be blasting. Israel is our ally, and Hezbollah is their enemy who happens to be buddies with our enemies. Bush is saying that any nation who is waging war against a terrorist organization seeking its destruction is fighting the same battle we are, and it's true. Just substitute the word 'America' for 'Israel' and it's the same rhetoric.

[tw]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Bush is saying that any nation who is waging war against a terrorist organization seeking its destruction is fighting the same battle we are, and it's true. Just substitute the word 'America' for 'Israel' and it's the same rhetoric.

George Jr also wants Armageddon. Do you? Do you advocate mass world wide murder only because some mythical character may then return? Do you advocate the mass murder of Jews? Your posts demand and justify that. Again, you are posting as an American with too much testosterone, hyped by rhetoric (that Hitler also used to hype war on his enemies), and with only a two year grasp of the world.

Israel is our ally? Then explain Israeli spying on the US. Explain the 'accidental' attack on the USS Liberty. Israel is bought and paid for. Again, can you cite those numbers? And why not?

Guess what. We also had friends among most of those Arab groups - until George Jr even got you to view the world in 'black and white' / 'good and evil' AND to want Armageddon.

Americans could once be welcomed in the Bekaa Valley - which you did not even know. But then you see the world in black and white which means you would make good cannon fodder. Which means you selectively remember history - or never even learned it. Meanwhile, honest people see many parties all with legitimate gripes.

Again, 9th Engineer - you could not even answer basic questions and yet somehow know a president must be right when he routinely operates against all good and patriotic Americans.

George Jr who did not even know what countries were adjacent to Israel is now and somehow right? This is the same man who could not stop reading a child's book when told "A second plane has just hit the World Trade Center. America is under attack." This same man did nothing when told America was under attack. And you believe his lies about Israel? You could not even answer basic questions about the Middle East. At least you probably know what countries are adjacent to Israel. And yet you would believe a man that dumb? Says so much about whether your make decisions as a Engineer - or as a brainwashed extremist.

9th Engineer - you are totally wrong. Your mindset is perfect for a military enlisted man who does what authority figures demand without question - and dangerous as a decision maker.

The enemy of my ‘bought and paid for’ friend is my enemy? Only when your world is ‘black and white’. Only when you don’t want to first learn how the world works. But then you apparently want Armageddon. Your logic previously created WWI. Did you learn that lesson from history?

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Bush is saying that any nation who is waging war against a terrorist organization seeking its destruction is fighting the same battle we are, and it's true. Just substitute the word 'America' for 'Israel' and it's the same rhetoric.

This is of course why the US has had allies like Stalin, Pinochet, Marcos, Saddam Hussein, and of course, Osama bin Laden.

So, if Hezbollah (Shiite) and Al Queda (Sunni) hate each other, which one is our ally?

[Flint]

Word substitution is a dangerous game. Words mean specific things.

[9th Engineer]

tw, look at the time stamps on my last post and the one in which you asked all those questions. I didn't answer any because I hadn't seen your post before writing my last one and didn't notice it afterward.

I'll oblige your demand for a knowlege test when I have time to write a post of that length(not at 12:30am) to shut you up. I don't think it'll matter though, since I don't care about things like who welcomed us back then if they are doing things I find abborent now.

In return however, you had better clarify just what the hell you mean by me wanting Armageddon, as well as why I shouldn't write you off as a complete nutcase Kaczynski-esque conspiracy theorist. Do I advocate world-wide murder so that some mythical character will return??? I don't know whether to laugh until I short-circuit my keyboard with drool or take offense. I think I know what you are suggesting, something about starting the End of Days, but if you honestly believe stuff like that (or that the government operates based on it) it isn't worth my time to discuss anything with you.

[Flint]

Oh...so that's what the timestamp is for!

[sproglet]

Move the state of Israel to the USA, problem solved. America's got plenty of room and seem to get on o.k.

They could build a replica Jerusalem (with some original artifacts obviously) al la Disneyworld to keep the orthodox Jews happy. Hell, Florida would be ideal wouldn't it?

[Undertoad]

Similarly, the 7/7 guys and last week's jerkoffs were thinking too globally as well, right Jay? Surely their beef isn't with the UK.

hezbollah has no axe to grind againt the US or UK

Hezbollah hates the US viciously.

It is thought to be responsible for the 1983 bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon: killing over 200 peacekeepers, which were the worst losses for the USMC since WW2 and the first use of large-scale suicide bombing by vehicle.

Both the US and UK governments have reached the conclusion that Hez is an illegal terrorist organization, and have labelled it as such.

Both nations demanded its disarming through the UNSC in 2000 (res 1559) which created a problem for it, because 100% of its money and power comes from being armed.

[Undertoad]

The bigger problem than common enemies is common ideas.

Hezbollah - innovated suicide bombing of innocents by truck, in the name of shia islam

Hamas - innovated suicide bombing of innocents by backpack, in the name of sunni islam

Al Qaeda - innovated suicide bombing of innocents by plane or train, in the name of sunni* islam

Now, tw is convinced that the "shia", "sunni" and "wahabbi" are the most operative words in this post.

Of course he plays the usual tw game of making it into a quiz for you to solve, rather than simply having a normal discussion and stating the facts. Now why does he do that? The question is left as an exercise for the reader.

*edit