Human Genographic Project

There have been several posts concerning ethnic identity .

I wonder if you know about this project run by National Geographic , IBM and the Watt Family Foundation ? It is to do with deep ancestry and the movement of people over the ages .

Modern genetics show that we all came from Africa , and that we are all linked to the so-called ' mitochondrial Eve' .

For not much more than a hundred dollars , you can learn more . You receive a DNA test-kit . You scrape the inside of your cheek , and you send the scrape to be analyzed . For women , the DNA analysis is done through the maternal line . It is a bit like Russian dolls . For men , the analysis goes through the father's line . I have done this test , and have found out that most of the people with my group come from Eastern Europe . My husband did his , and his group went via the Himalayas and then over to Western Europe . 90 percent of men in Ireland and Northern Spain have his haplogroup . He is French .

The test is obviously limited , as you only follow one line , and hell I am Welsh and a Welsh-speaker through my father's side . We have been in Wales since Noah . My mother is English .

Anyway , it is interesting and fun . The proceeds go to fund genetic research into native peoples who are far more interesting than us boring old Europeans . For example , it has recently been shown that the Polynesians colonized the Pacific from the area which is now Taiwan . This research the helps scientists to learn more about humanity in general .

When you get the DNA pack , you also get a lot of information putting modern genetic science into layman's terms . Many of you think I criticize the Americans . Perhaps I do sometimes , but no one can hold a light to the way cutting-edge American scientists manage to explain science to hapless non-scientists such as myself .

[xoxoxoBruce]

Do you have a link or some contact information?

[Elspode]

I read something awhile back that discussed this project, and which also touched upon a growing trend among certain ethnic populations...namely, the use of DNA testing to determine who had the most "pure" blood, i.e., the least diluted lineage pointing back to their ancestral lands. It was said that there is a trend toward racial bias being based on this data *within* the same apparent ethnic group.

"I'm more (your ethnic group name here) than you!" How unerringly human.

I had never seen it in that light before , Elspode . I see it as being a project that actually shows how meaningless the concept of 'race ' is . But yes , I can see how the project could be misused in the way that you mention .

Bruce , I am a technological Luddite , and I do not know how to give clickable links . Just type ' human genographic project national geographic' into Google and the goods will come up .

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I read something awhile back that discussed this project, and which also touched upon a growing trend among certain ethnic populations...namely, the use of DNA testing to determine who had the most "pure" blood, i.e., the least diluted lineage pointing back to their ancestral lands. It was said that there is a trend toward racial bias being based on this data *within* the same apparent ethnic group.

"I'm more (your ethnic group name here) than you!" How unerringly human.

I'm a spin doctor and I can fix this:
"You pathetic (your ethnic group name here) inbred."

See? Isn't that better? Now, I want you to go out and kill all those (your ethnic group name here) worms.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Here's the kit. Pretty much what I expected except two things.

One, I have to pay postage to mail the samples back which isn't a big deal except I have to go to the post office. This may be the result of changes in postal regulations to make people hand almost anything but a basic envelope, to a postal clerk....with the surveillance cameras watching. I go through this several times a month sending the 9.5" x12.5" Priority Mail envelopes. Whatever.

Two, a pleasant surprise, there is a DVD explaining what they are doing, how they're doing it, and the entire TV series from National Geographic called "The Journey of Man". Very cool series about how people got spread out over the globe.....at least the latest theory of it. It sounds rather dry and boring but actually it's interesting because they visit some far flung villages and see how the people live.

They say it'll take about a month after I mail the samples to get the results posted on the web where I can access it with my kit code number.
I'll keep you posted.

[glatt]

Interesting. I wonder exactly what the results will show. And from a more practical point of view, could I convince all my family members to chip in to cover the cost of one of these, so that one of us could do it and share the results with the rest. Like I could take samples from one of my kids, so the results would include my wife's side of the family as well as my own. Then we would have information of interest to about 45 people I know.

[Beestie]

Genetically speaking, I'm a mutt. And I can't even begin to reconcile the idea of racial purity with the idea that all humans descended from a common ancestor.

I think if you went back far enough, you would find that all life on earth descended from a virus. Makes me wonder what the viruses of today will evolve into 3B years from now.

Racial purity. Another milestone of self-delusion.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Racial purity. Another milestone of self-delusion.

[barefoot serpent]

here's a recent article about one persons experience.

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK, I'll give it a shot.
I've ordered a kit directly from National Geographic Society, of which I'm already a member. It came to $113.95 with the sales tax for PA and shipping.
The kit includes the return postage and a computer generated random code number the test results will be tagged with.

The NGS claims your anonymity is maintained because the lab that processes it only has the code number and not your identity, and the results are not mailed to you. To get the results you have to access them online with the code number.

We all know that any precautions they come up with to guarantee privacy can be circumvented or breached through carelessness but I don't see a potential problem with this information as I'm sure I'm all ready on numerous government "lists".

I'll keep you posted.

[erno365]

Another interesting topic to watch out on National Geographic. I wont miss this one..

[skysidhe]

very very interesting. I can't wait to hear Bruces results. I wonder if you will have any suprises?

although I know my grandfathers and grandmothers race being irish x2, american indian and English I think too there must be some african in there someplace if I were to venture to get one of those kits. I would not be suprised. I can't afford it so I'll just live through Bruces excitement.

( although I would love to from some old celtic land. I got hairy enough legs for it):p

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

very very interesting. I can't wait to hear Bruces results. I wonder if you will have any suprises?

although I know my grandfathers and grandmothers race being irish x2, american indian and English I think too there must be some african in there someplace if I were to venture to get one of those kits. I would not be suprised. I can't afford it so I'll just live through Bruces excitement.

( although I would love to from some old celtic land. I got hairy enough legs for it):p

It's not a geneology search, much more general than that.

I know the line, on my mothers side, back to about 1200AD England, for sure, and back to 700AD Denmark, by educated guess of professional researchers.
On Pop's side, I only know back to early 1800s Scotland.

This project goes back tens of thousands of years to see what side trips the line may have taken between Africa and the US. Most likely Kazakhstan was the first stop, from what I've seen.

I just don't see why people care.
I know about my history because of my family, but it makes no sense to me to "identify" with any of it.

It's knowlege I find interesting.
The "purpose" of the project, according the the guy that started it, is to demonstrate how closely every human being is related. To show that people should "identify" with every other human. That separating people by race is a pointless exercise.

I want to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.....

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK, they finally posted my results.....lesee here.... I came from Ork in a giant egg back in the.....no wait, that ain't it.

The Y chromosome passes from father to son, basically unchanged, forever. It does, however, pick up scars (mutations) along the way. The scars are added and don't change what was there, just slapped on like travel stickers.

All non-African men in the world carry the M168 marker on their Y chromosome. That's right, ALL of us...they think.
So we all trace back to a guy in northeast Africa, possibly Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania, about 50,000 years ago.

When the European ice sheets started to melt, parts of the Sahara became warm and wet then green. Our guy, we'll call him Adam, followed the wildlife into these newly greened areas.

Adam's descendents had a trauma somewhere and picked up another scar, M89, before moving through the Middle East, about 45,000 years ago. They hung around awhile and picked up another scar, M9, to become the Eurasian clan.

About 40,000 years ago, the M9 gang left Iran and headed for Pamir Knot, located in present-day Tajikistan. That's where the Karakoram, Himalaya, Hindu Kush and Tian Shan, mountain ranges all meet. I imagine they got tired of climbing a damn mountain every time they wanted to go somewhere, so they moved north of the Hindu Kush to the plains of present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and southern Siberia. Lots of good hunting there.

35,000 years ago a new scar, M45 central Asian clan, appeared and the clan with it, moved further north. Because the glaciers were advancing again, where they lived became too dry so they followed the game herds.

30,000 years ago, with a new scar, M207, the clan split with my half going north and west into Europe, while the other half turned south, away from the ice and cold, toward India.

My half of M207s picked up another scar, M173, and colonized Europe. During this colonization they picked up, M343. This group is the direct descendents of Cro-Magnon Man, the cave painters.

Then about 20,000 years ago the advancing ice sheets forced everyone to move south, M343, mostly to Spain and the other M173s mostly to Italy and the Balkans. They all moved back north when the ice sheets started to retreat about 12,000 years ago. They liked global warming.

How my forefathers got from 10,000BC Spain to 1800AD Scotland, is anybodies guess, but there was probably a lot of raping and pillaging involved.