What is a hobby breeder? - Page 2

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 01:26 AM

Not at all.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2009, 01:34 AM

Then you should know what the fuck I was talking about. Punishing all pet owners, or hobby breeders, for the 2%, 5%, whatever, that run off and start puppy mills is stupid. But that's typical of the way the government works.

Undertoad · 03-22-2009, 01:40 AM

How do hobby breeders beget puppy mills?

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

How do hobby breeders beget puppy mills?

OMG

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 01:41 AM

Bruce I understand where you are coming from.

What I don't get is Nirvanas reluctance to understand where the 'heart' from which the necessity of these controls comes from. As a animal lover she should be aware like no one else about the horrors that exist for animals from the puppy mills.

Her attitude did absolutely nothing for me. It made me not respect her at all and I know about good breeders.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2009, 01:50 AM

Her point, and mine, is puppy mills have nothing to do with hobby breeders or pet owners in general.... except pet owners provide a market for the pet stores that the puppy mills supply.
So these draconian regulations they are proposing have huge unintended consequences on the other 98% of the people that breed, or even own, dogs.

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 01:44 AM

Once a demand for a pricey breed is created, then comes the puppy mills.

Thus, there is a responsibility to the breed.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Once a demand for a pricey breed is created, then comes the puppy mills.

Thus, there is a responsibility to the breed.

So the solution is to outlaw every breed except one? Everybody must own the official government mandated breed?

They're is no reason why puppy mills can't be regulated, inspected, or in my opinion outlawed entirely, if they wanted to. But it's easier and cheaper for the lazy fucking politicians to just dump on everyone.

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So the solution is to outlaw every breed except one? Everybody must own the official government mandated breed?

They're is no reason why puppy mills can't be regulated, inspected, or in my opinion outlawed entirely, if they wanted to. But it's easier and cheaper for the lazy fucking politicians to just dump on everyone.

Bruce, thats where I think you are overreacting. Ultimately, the gobermint wont actually be able to exert the kind of control you are forecasting, but starting the business of control is really important.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2009, 02:13 AM

Oh sure, we can trust the government... the government is our friend.
You think I'm over reacting because you haven't got a clue how the bureaucracy works.

One thought, puppy mills are bad. OK, we all agree on that, even Nirvana.
But what are we going to do about it?
You say trust the government.
I know better.

Shawnee123 · 03-23-2009, 12:19 PM

I would submit that an extremist might also be one who compares some laws about ethical animal breeding to Hitler's slaughter of the Jews.

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 01:53 AM

If these 'Draconian ' measures actually end up protecting the animals, then Im all for it. Hobby breeders be damned.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

If these 'Draconian ' measures actually end up protecting the animals, then Im all for it. Hobby breeders be damned.

You'd make a great politician.

Nirvana · 03-23-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

If these 'Draconian ' measures actually end up protecting the animals, then Im all for it. Hobby breeders be damned.

Pico you really have no idea what you are talking about and I really have no need of your respect but I have to say I spent 7 years educating and lobbying my breed club to change part of the breed standard to protect my breed from those that sought to cross breed to include a color pattern that is detrimental because my breed comes in many pigment reducing patterns. Some thought cross breeding merle dachshunds, and mini aussies with Chihuahuas would make them pretty. Not only does adding that gene rob my breed of its breed type it includes a pattern that some think of as a disease. I wrote a breed standard revision that included a serious fault to make it possible to discourage the breeding of this pattern. Dogs with this pattern and blue eyes are more likely to be deaf and have eye anomalies especially in my breed. You can read more about it here.
http://tanyastoys.com/infoM.htm

This issue divided our breed club and surely made me super bitch in the eyes of many people either because they wanted something to make them seem special or because they were apathetic. But I care about my breed and I have a thick hide and some things are more important than others greed.
I wrote the petition which had to be signed by 99 members of our club and I wrote the revision and with the help of others and our club voted and the revision is now included in the AKC standard as of Oct 2008 If you do not know how difficult it is to revise a breed standard consider that 2/3 of the membership of a club have to vote in the affirmative.
Blue eyes or a difference in the color of the iris in the two eyes, or two different colors within one iris should be considered a serious fault.
http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/
If I never do another thing in dogs I will have done more for my breed that you will ever do in your lifetime for any animal.

Undertoad · 03-22-2009, 01:54 AM

I know a little about the dog breeding bi'ness, and a good bit about economics.

What I notice is that quality hobby breeders provide about 10% of the dogs out there, which means they are not setting the market price. I also notice that my local pet store that sells dogs is putting up Puggles at the same price as semi-quality Boston Terriers (of which I know a little, enough to judge the quality of). Hobby breeders aren't setting the price of Puggles, so there must be something else afoot.

03-22-2009, 01:34 AM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Then you should know what the fuck I was talking about. Punishing all pet owners, or hobby breeders, for the 2%, 5%, whatever, that run off and start puppy mills is stupid. But that's typical of the way the government works. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-22-2009, 01:50 AM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Her point, and mine, is puppy mills have nothing to do with hobby breeders or pet owners in general.... except pet owners provide a market for the pet stores that the puppy mills supply. So these draconian regulations they are proposing have huge unintended consequences on the other 98% of the people that breed, or even own, dogs. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-22-2009, 02:13 AM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Oh sure, we can trust the government... the government is our friend. You think I'm over reacting because you haven't got a clue how the bureaucracy works. One thought, puppy mills are bad. OK, we all agree on that, even Nirvana. But what are we going to do about it? You say trust the government. I know better. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-23-2009, 12:19 PM	#11
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I would submit that an extremist might also be one who compares some laws about ethical animal breeding to Hitler's slaughter of the Jews. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

03-22-2009, 01:26 AM	#1
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	Not at all.

03-22-2009, 01:40 AM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	How do hobby breeders beget puppy mills?

03-22-2009, 01:41 AM	#5
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	Bruce I understand where you are coming from. What I don't get is Nirvanas reluctance to understand where the 'heart' from which the necessity of these controls comes from. As a animal lover she should be aware like no one else about the horrors that exist for animals from the puppy mills. Her attitude did absolutely nothing for me. It made me not respect her at all and I know about good breeders.

03-22-2009, 01:44 AM	#7
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	Once a demand for a pricey breed is created, then comes the puppy mills. Thus, there is a responsibility to the breed.

03-22-2009, 01:53 AM	#12
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	If these 'Draconian ' measures actually end up protecting the animals, then Im all for it. Hobby breeders be damned.

03-22-2009, 01:54 AM	#15
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I know a little about the dog breeding bi'ness, and a good bit about economics. What I notice is that quality hobby breeders provide about 10% of the dogs out there, which means they are not setting the market price. I also notice that my local pet store that sells dogs is putting up Puggles at the same price as semi-quality Boston Terriers (of which I know a little, enough to judge the quality of). Hobby breeders aren't setting the price of Puggles, so there must be something else afoot.

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