9/19/2004: Three-year-old campaigner cries

Undertoad · 09-19-2004, 08:00 AM

I swore up and down that I'd try to avoid this as an IotD, because it's so bloody partisan, but then I realized that it's kinda non-partisan when you think about it.

Once wolf posted this item in the "Humor in the Campaigns" thread, I was ready to post this shot there but then I realized it's downright UNhumorous by any account, and not suitable for the thread.

What it is: the man in the center is a Bush supporter. Edwards was making a stop at his local airport so he packed some Bush signs into his bag and headed off to the event, with his kids in tow. (One kid eleven years old, the other, three.) When he got there the Kerry/Edwards supporter guy tore up their sign and the girl busted out in tears, and an AP photographer caught the whole thing.

The ensuing online flame war could have been predicted from miles away. This really says nothing about any candidate, any party, or any set of supporters. It's an isolated event. It doesn't mean much and both sides are trying to assign it too much meaning.

I'd rather not pay attention at all. But what interests me is the question of whether the man had any business carting his three-year-old into the hornet's nest. It's ok for him to do it, that's fine, I hope he does, that's part of how the whole thing works. But at age 3, it seems like the kid is a prop or, worse, a human shield. It's good if the kids get something out of it -- seeing political activity up close. But are they kinda in harm's way here?

Jacquelita · 09-19-2004, 08:17 AM

IS this for real? Was there legit news coverage on it? When I originally saw this pic, I thought - photoshop

Who would take their kids into a "rally" with signs supporting the opposing team?

Who would tear up a 3-year-old's sign - regardless of what it said?

Jacquelita · 09-19-2004, 08:38 AM

I just read this again and realized it was an AP photographer...

Is the Bush campaign playing this up at all? I still have a hard time believing this is real

wolf · 09-19-2004, 08:39 AM

Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies.

Politics has become infected with the same mentality that rules football games, and makes it somehow acceptable (or if not acceptable, not uncommon) to beat the shit out of some guy wearing the opposing team's jersey in "your" stadium.

This should never have happened.

Happy Monkey · 09-19-2004, 08:56 AM

It's very possible that it's not real. The guy has a history of doing this, and the "Kerry supporter" may be his son.

Happy Monkey · 09-19-2004, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies.

(A) They're not allowed in.
(B) When they do get in, they may easily get savaged.

Undertoad · 09-19-2004, 09:06 AM

If you read the full page at Rising Hegemon it points to the Union's apology for their member's actions - it's not the guy's son. The guy is a serial event-buster and it's not interesting that he's been in the newspapers for it multiple times. You'd expect it. Think about it - the VP candidate shows up at the airport, the photographers are all there, and the boring as hell headline is "Edwards says a few words at airport". But a much better headline is "Political guy gets sign tooken away in minor fracas"...

The thing is, a really great headline is "Edwards Supporter is Mean to Little Girl".

And so if the guy was a serial event-buster and had his signs tooken before and knew it was likely, why did he take his three-year-old? On purpose? Into the hornet's nest?

Is that, like, family values or something?

Happy Monkey · 09-19-2004, 09:40 AM

That's not quite what it said. The union issued a standard PR apology, and the guy said it was not his son. Nothing certain at this point.

But, staged or not, the guy was definately using his daughter as a prop.

richlevy · 09-19-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

That's not quite what it said. The union issued a standard PR apology, and the guy said it was not his son. Nothing certain at this point.

But, staged or not, the guy was definately using his daughter as a prop.

Note to self. If I decide to pull the same prank at a Republican rally, buy son bulletproof vest before letting him hold up sign.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-19-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies.

Been working long hours?
Haven't seen much of the campaign?
Been pilfering the patient's meds? :p

chrisinhouston · 09-19-2004, 02:36 PM

http://www.nbc10.com/politics/3735989/detail.html
and here:
http://www.opednews.com/wade_091904_dissent.htm

Karenv · 09-19-2004, 06:03 PM

The guy who tore up the sign is iin fact the son of the man who staged the event. He is a serial provacateur who has staged these events at several rallys. I saw a family portrait of them. He certainly used his three year old as a prop. And look at the face of the "sign tearer"- he is the one in the grey shirt a few years ago.

Whereas it is impossible to attend a Bush rally without being arrested or kicked out if you are wearing a Kerry button. This woman was arrested for "hostile tresspass" for asking questions about the war that killed her son when Laura Bush was speaking. If you go to www.republicansforkerry.com you will see a story by someone who tried to attend a Bush rally on the day both candidates spoke in Ohio- even took off his Kerry shirt when asked. First they let him in, then they asked him to stand in a segregated area with a bodyguard, then they kicked him out after he had been standing quietly for a while, before Bush even showed up.

CharlieG · 09-20-2004, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karenv

...snip.... This woman was arrested for "hostile tresspass" .....

There is a GOOD explaination of the law over on Volokh.org - by a law professor - it seems in NJ (where the incident occurs) if you are asked to leave by an event organizer, and you DON'T, you ARE guilty "hostile tresspass" - it's the definition of the law. The fact that when the police tried to escort her out she starts screaming "Police brutality" isn't over reaction either, huh? Sort of like my Mother In Law screaming "Rape" to get the NYPD tow driver to let down her car - it's a standard tactic that I've seen taught in protest groups (I USED to be a liberal, still attend a VERY liberal church - the stories I could tell.... ) IMHO - and ONLY from MY experience on BOTH sides of the issue - Most of the "traditional" liberal groups that were started and/or run by the 1960s protestors teach disruption tactics, where the right wing groups SEEM to tell their members to NOT disrupt (Like I said, I've been to planning sessions for BOTH sides over the years)

Happy Monkey · 09-20-2004, 10:16 AM

Of course, it was legal to arrest her. But it was unneccesary. Why arrest, when kicking out will do? And the bigger issue is that anyone - whether disruptive or not - who does not support Bush is considered unwelcome. Therefore, the only voices of dissent that Bush ever sees are the ones who actively circumvent "security" (ie security people who are weeding out political views rather than security risks), who are the ones most likely to be disruptive. There are plenty of people who would be happy to stand in the back with a sign, without chanting or yelling, as there are at Kerry rallies, but that type of protest isn't allowed at Bush rallies.

CharlieG · 09-20-2004, 10:38 AM

Thing is, according to reports that I heard (again, see the link I mentioned) she was asked to leave (verbally) and basically told the folks NO, because she had a ticket. Under NJ law, even if you have a ticket, if you are asked to leave, you must. AFTER she refused to leave when asked is when the police moved in

09-19-2004, 08:00 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	9/19/2004: Three-year-old campaigner cries I swore up and down that I'd try to avoid this as an IotD, because it's so bloody partisan, but then I realized that it's kinda non-partisan when you think about it. Once wolf posted this item in the "Humor in the Campaigns" thread, I was ready to post this shot there but then I realized it's downright UNhumorous by any account, and not suitable for the thread. What it is: the man in the center is a Bush supporter. Edwards was making a stop at his local airport so he packed some Bush signs into his bag and headed off to the event, with his kids in tow. (One kid eleven years old, the other, three.) When he got there the Kerry/Edwards supporter guy tore up their sign and the girl busted out in tears, and an AP photographer caught the whole thing. The ensuing online flame war could have been predicted from miles away. This really says nothing about any candidate, any party, or any set of supporters. It's an isolated event. It doesn't mean much and both sides are trying to assign it too much meaning. I'd rather not pay attention at all. But what interests me is the question of whether the man had any business carting his three-year-old into the hornet's nest. It's ok for him to do it, that's fine, I hope he does, that's part of how the whole thing works. But at age 3, it seems like the kid is a prop or, worse, a human shield. It's good if the kids get something out of it -- seeing political activity up close. But are they kinda in harm's way here?

09-19-2004, 08:39 AM	#4
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies. Politics has become infected with the same mentality that rules football games, and makes it somehow acceptable (or if not acceptable, not uncommon) to beat the shit out of some guy wearing the opposing team's jersey in "your" stadium. This should never have happened. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

09-19-2004, 08:56 AM	#5
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	It's very possible that it's not real. The guy has a history of doing this, and the "Kerry supporter" may be his son. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-19-2004, 09:40 AM	#8
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	That's not quite what it said. The union issued a standard PR apology, and the guy said it was not his son. Nothing certain at this point. But, staged or not, the guy was definately using his daughter as a prop. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-19-2004, 02:36 PM	#11
chrisinhouston Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,857	Mother arrested for interupting First Lady's speech http://www.nbc10.com/politics/3735989/detail.html and here: http://www.opednews.com/wade_091904_dissent.htm

09-19-2004, 08:17 AM	#2
Jacquelita Don't pop a vein Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in my own mind Posts: 289	IS this for real? Was there legit news coverage on it? When I originally saw this pic, I thought - photoshop Who would take their kids into a "rally" with signs supporting the opposing team? Who would tear up a 3-year-old's sign - regardless of what it said?

09-19-2004, 08:38 AM	#3
Jacquelita Don't pop a vein Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in my own mind Posts: 289	I just read this again and realized it was an AP photographer... Is the Bush campaign playing this up at all? I still have a hard time believing this is real

09-19-2004, 09:06 AM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If you read the full page at Rising Hegemon it points to the Union's apology for their member's actions - it's not the guy's son. The guy is a serial event-buster and it's not interesting that he's been in the newspapers for it multiple times. You'd expect it. Think about it - the VP candidate shows up at the airport, the photographers are all there, and the boring as hell headline is "Edwards says a few words at airport". But a much better headline is "Political guy gets sign tooken away in minor fracas"... The thing is, a really great headline is "Edwards Supporter is Mean to Little Girl". And so if the guy was a serial event-buster and had his signs tooken before and knew it was likely, why did he take his three-year-old? On purpose? Into the hornet's nest? Is that, like, family values or something?

09-19-2004, 06:03 PM	#12
Karenv Slacker Join Date: May 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 144	The guy who tore up the sign is iin fact the son of the man who staged the event. He is a serial provacateur who has staged these events at several rallys. I saw a family portrait of them. He certainly used his three year old as a prop. And look at the face of the "sign tearer"- he is the one in the grey shirt a few years ago. Whereas it is impossible to attend a Bush rally without being arrested or kicked out if you are wearing a Kerry button. This woman was arrested for "hostile tresspass" for asking questions about the war that killed her son when Laura Bush was speaking. If you go to www.republicansforkerry.com you will see a story by someone who tried to attend a Bush rally on the day both candidates spoke in Ohio- even took off his Kerry shirt when asked. First they let him in, then they asked him to stand in a segregated area with a bodyguard, then they kicked him out after he had been standing quietly for a while, before Bush even showed up. Attached Images

09-20-2004, 10:16 AM	#14
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Of course, it was legal to arrest her. But it was unneccesary. Why arrest, when kicking out will do? And the bigger issue is that anyone - whether disruptive or not - who does not support Bush is considered unwelcome. Therefore, the only voices of dissent that Bush ever sees are the ones who actively circumvent "security" (ie security people who are weeding out political views rather than security risks), who are the ones most likely to be disruptive. There are plenty of people who would be happy to stand in the back with a sign, without chanting or yelling, as there are at Kerry rallies, but that type of protest isn't allowed at Bush rallies. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-20-2004, 10:38 AM	#15
CharlieG Hoodoo Guru Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 301	Thing is, according to reports that I heard (again, see the link I mentioned) she was asked to leave (verbally) and basically told the folks NO, because she had a ticket. Under NJ law, even if you have a ticket, if you are asked to leave, you must. AFTER she refused to leave when asked is when the police moved in

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