The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Technology

Technology Computing, programming, science, electronics, telecommunications, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-23-2020, 10:58 AM   #31
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 30,855
This reminds me of what happened when the gummint said "OK no more incandescent bulbs" -- people started to list the shortcomings of compact fluorescents. "You can't just throw them away!" "Dimmers don't work right!" "The light is a weird blue!"

But if we had started with CFLs, and then the gummint said "OK only incandescents now", people would have angrily listed all their shortcomings. "These things take up ten times the energy!" "They get really hot, you can't even touch them. I burned my hand!" "The light is a weird orange!"

"Batteries suck" sure, but if we had started with batteries, and were told to switch to internal combustion?

"This thing is really slow!" "I have to stand next to the car like an idiot to fuel it -- every 300 miles!" "It breaks down three times as often!" "The fuel got on my pants and I had to actually throw them away!" "Service the car every 7500 miles? Ridiculous!" "So you're saying I have to check the oil level with a little stick?" "You're saying if this fuel leaks out it could catch fire and maybe even explode?" "So I can't refuel it at home?"
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 11:01 AM   #32
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 69,049
Those puller downers are damn couch potatoes, they ought to...

Get their motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Look for adventure
And whatever comes their way

Not to is un-American, unpatriotic, disrespecting the troops,
they might as well be taking a knee.
__________________
Tony Montana, Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, and Donald Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 11:14 AM   #33
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 30,855


"So you're saying I can't leave it running in the garage, or my whole family will be poisoned and may actually die?"

"Oh my god, these things are so LOUD! They actually work off little explosions!"

"So you're saying this thing has a motor it needs to start its motor?"

"So you're saying that, even though this thing runs on that ridiculous fuel, it still needs a battery?"

"So you're saying the range is listed in 'amount of fuel' with a tiny little gauge, and only some of the cars even try to guess how far that is in miles? You just have to estimate?"

"So you're saying the muffler will rust until it drags under the car -- and somebody has to actually weld a new one on?"

Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 11:33 AM   #34
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 69,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
"Batteries suck" sure, but if we had started with batteries, and were told to switch to internal combustion?

"This thing is really slow!"
Slow?
Quote:
"I have to stand next to the car like an idiot to fuel it -- every 300 miles!"
I get 500 miles from a tank of gas traveling, I can go to Cape Cod without stopping to recharge for a day half way. Branson MO, three fuel stops maybe a half hour total time because it was almost 1200 miles.
Quote:
"It breaks down three times as often!"
Only if you don't maintain them.
Quote:
"The fuel got on my pants and I had to actually throw them away!"
No cure for stupid.
Quote:
"Service the car every 7500 miles? Ridiculous!" "So you're saying I have to check the oil level with a little stick?"
Other than the oil and coolant Electrics need the same maintenance, tires, shocks, wheel bearings, brakes, steering gear, wiper fluid, wiper blades, all that stuff, plus the battery and wiring the mice love to chew.
Quote:
"You're saying if this fuel leaks out it could catch fire and maybe even explode?"
Gasoline cars don't have the market on fires cornered by a long shot.
Quote:
"So I can't refuel it at home?"
Of course you can.

Back in the beginning we had both gas and electric. Batteries sucked even worse then so the people chose gasoline.
Well Henry Ford had a lot of input.
__________________
Tony Montana, Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, and Donald Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 11:36 AM   #35
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 69,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post


"So you're saying I can't leave it running in the garage, or my whole family will be poisoned and may actually die?"

"Oh my god, these things are so LOUD! They actually work off little explosions!"

"So you're saying this thing has a motor it needs to start its motor?"

"So you're saying that, even though this thing runs on that ridiculous fuel, it still needs a battery?"

"So you're saying the range is listed in 'amount of fuel' with a tiny little gauge, and only some of the cars even try to guess how far that is in miles? You just have to estimate?"

"So you're saying the muffler will rust until it drags under the car -- and somebody has to actually weld a new one on?"

Like I said, no cure for stupid.
__________________
Tony Montana, Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, and Donald Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 12:37 PM   #36
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 30,855
Quote:
I get 500 miles from a tank of gas traveling, I can go to Cape Cod without stopping to recharge for a day half way. Branson MO, three fuel stops maybe a half hour total time because it was almost 1200 miles.
Only 4 current car models have 500 mile range on a single tank, is this a truck? Because the Cybertruck is expected to have a 500 mile range, so.



The long-distance trip is truly the inconvenience of the EV.

It will get better; the version 3 Tesla supercharger, now being rolled out, will recharge the Model 3 battery to 80% in a half hour, or about 75 miles in five minutes.

VW's charging system is even faster, but requires water cooling...
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2020, 03:03 AM   #37
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 69,049
Yes truck, 25 gallon tank, 20 mpg if I keep it down around 65/70 but drops much faster over 100, over 150 you can almost see the needle move.

Oh that was another thing the Tesla forum brought up. Like you said the charge procedure is controlled by the onboard system, so a long 120 volt charge uses a larger percentage of the power coming in the make it come in. I doubt it's a significant number, they were probably nit picking, but it's part of the equation.

Since the replacement battery cost will likely increase with inflation like everything else, when you know you're getting close it might be better to do it sooner than you have to in order to come out ahead.

The problem with this stuff is there's no crusty old fart whos been there, done that, got the t-shirt, to ask, but I suppose our AI Robot overlords will tell us what to do.
__________________
Tony Montana, Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, and Donald Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2020, 12:40 AM   #38
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,470
Electric is clearly a future. But batteries remain the 'still not yet developed' technology. For example, peers in Norway highly recommend an electric vehicle. Since electricity in Norway is almost all from renewable sources. However, many now complain: that battery does not have range that was promoted. Since that range assumes no air conditioner and no heat.

Hybrid still remains the superior and currently more practical technology. Since nothing yet comes close to an "energy per pound" found in gasoline.

But innovators have already defined how that next technology will exist. The electric car is called a skate board. Manufacturers may simply sell a skate board that contains electric motors, batteries, suspension, breaks, etc. And other manufacturers drop a customized chassis onto that skate board.

Whereas all parts of a current technology car must be integrated with all others, the skate board means your car, in the future, might be purchased from someone equivalent to today's computer assemblers.

We have seen how the future advances. Once big box stores could stock everything we need. Now the largest Walmart can no longer stock the many items we now consume. In every industry, standard products explode into so many variations that each product, more and more often, becomes customized for that unique customer.

That is what the skate board will probably do to the auto industry.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 06:43 PM   #39
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 69,049
Oh dear, this is not good...

Name:  electric.jpg
Views: 33
Size:  37.7 KB

I read Mercedes is committed to building 50,000 electrics this year.
__________________
Tony Montana, Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, and Donald Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 07:43 PM   #40
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 30,855
Charging station map
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 11:20 PM   #41
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 69,049
Gas station map...
Attached Images
 
__________________
Tony Montana, Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, and Donald Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 08:26 AM   #42
fargon
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: La Crosse, WI
Posts: 8,429
i put in my Zip code and found out that there are 14 charging stations in the Greater La Crosse area.
__________________
Annoy the ones that ignore you!!!
I live a blessed life
I Love my Country, I Fear the Government!!!
Heavily medicated for the good of mankind.
fargon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 09:28 AM   #43
glatt
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Name:  plugs.jpg
Views: 38
Size:  26.5 KB

I suppose if I bought an electric car, I would figure out the plug situation and get adapters if they are available, but I disapprove of this situation.

I see the very bottom one is a house outlet, and maybe the one next to it is some sort of 240 volt outlet. But why doesn't Tesla even have its own standard? The different manufacturers should come up with an industry standard plug.

The gas stations and car manufacturers have the pump nozzles figured out pretty well. Just buy gas, not diesel, or vice versa.
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 10:07 AM   #44
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 30,855
I believe this is what happened:

2008 Tesla offers Roadster, there is no standard plug design, they design one that is AC charging only. It's early and rare.

2012 Tesla offers Model S develops standard design that can use AC or DC, offers design to world as possible universal design, says if they use it they must participate in the Tesla charging network.

World decides Tesla is A) a competitor to their own car markets and B) may not be long for the world, and everybody wants their own charging network, develops their own standards.

Japan develops the J-1772 for AC charging and the CHAdeMO for DC charging.

The EU, with Audi BMW GM Ford Daimler and VW all participating, says feh and decides on the CCS standard which supports both AC and DC.

So other manufactures wind up with their own "standards".

NEMA 14-50 is previous US standard for high voltage 50 amp circuits (A dryer plug is actually a NEMA 14-30, unless your house is older and has a NEMA 11-30). A Tesla Wall Charger for the home is plugged into a NEMA 14-50 if there is one. We might ask LJ what type of plug his electrician put in for the new heater.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 10:53 AM   #45
glatt
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
everybody ... develops their own standards.
I know this is the way the world works, but I have to chuckle at how any company can use the word "standard" when describing how they are making something different.

How did we ever get USB connections?
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.