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Old 05-16-2020, 10:56 PM   #2191
BigV
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"America?"

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Old 05-17-2020, 05:51 AM   #2192
DanaC
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Quote:
And to think, this is Boris who finally admitted the pandemic exists - only after he ended up in the ICU

**Meeep! Meeep! Total Bullshit Alert Meep!**


Selected highlights of the Covid-19 timeline in the UK. There had previously been some activity around tracking incoming travellers from affected areas and instructions to self-isolate for anybody with a new persistent cough or a temperature - then things started to get a lot more serious:

Quote:
2 March – The government holds a COBRA meeting to discuss its preparations and response to the virus, as the number of UK cases jumps to 36.[16]

3 March – The government publishes its action plan for dealing with coronavirus. This includes scenarios ranging from a milder pandemic to a "severe prolonged pandemic as experienced in 1918" and warns that a fifth of the national workforce could be absent from work during the infection's peak.

5 March - The first death from coronavirus in the UK is confirmed,[20] as the number of cases exceeds 100, with a total of 115 having tested positive. England's Chief Medical Officer, Chris Whitty, tells MPs that the UK has now moved to the second stage of dealing with COVID-19 – from "containment" to the "delay" phase

6 March – The Prime Minister announces 46 million in funding for research into a coronavirus vaccine and rapid diagnostic tests. During a visit to a laboratory in Bedfordshire, he says: "It looks like there will be a substantial period of disruption where we have to deal with this outbreak."

11 March - Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rishi Sunak, presents the Johnson Government's first budget, which includes 30 billion in measures to protect the economy from coronavirus.[


13 March - Elections including the English local elections, London mayoral election and police and crime commissioner elections, scheduled for May 2020, are postponed for a year because of the coronavirus.

14 March - A further 10 people are reported to have died from COVID-19, almost doubling the UK death toll from 11 to 21. The government's aim for a "herd immunity" approach generates controversy.
This is where we see a change in approach as the flattening the curve + herd immunity argument loses ground to a more aggressive attempt to flatten the curve while fully protecting the most vulnerable groups through extreme social distancing - it could be argued that they should have changed stream sooner, but this was a dynamic situation with a brand new disease and contradictory and changing positions held by different experts in the field - that field had already started to coalesce around the idea that herd immunity was not the way to go and I think Boris and his government were too slow to change tack.

I don't think that means they weren't taking it seriously.

Quote:
15 March - Health Secretary Matt Hancock says that every UK resident over the age of 70 will be told "within the coming weeks" to self-isolate for "a very long time" to shield them from coronavirus

- The government announces plans to hold daily televised press conferences to update the public on the fight against the coronavirus pandemic, starting on Monday 16 March.


16 March - Prime Minister Boris Johnson advises everyone in the UK against "non-essential" travel and contact with others, to curb coronavirus, as well as to work from home if possible and avoid visiting social venues such as pubs, clubs or theatres. Pregnant women, people over the age of 70 and those with certain health conditions are urged to consider the advice "particularly important", and will be asked to self-isolate within days.

- The government issues a call for businesses to support the supply of ventilators and ventilator components; the NHS has access to 8,175 ventilators but it is thought that up to 30,000 may be needed.


17 March - NHS England announces that from 15 April all non-urgent operations in England will be postponed, to free up 30,000 beds to help tackle the virus.]

- The Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, announces that 330bn will be made available in loan guarantees for businesses affected by the virus.

- The Foreign and Commonwealth Office advises against all non-essential international travel due to the pandemic and the border restrictions put in place by many countries in response
We now see a series of measures that are beyond anything I have seen in my lifetime:

Quote:
18 March - The government announces that all schools in the country will shut from the afternoon of Friday
20 March, except for those looking after the children of key workers and vulnerable children. No exams will take place this academic year, Education Secretary Gavin Williamson confirms

- The government announces emergency legislation to bring in a ban on new evictions for three months, as part of measures to help protect renters in social and private rented accommodation

19 March - The government announces 1.6bn for local authorities, to help with the cost of adult social care and support for the homeless; and 1.3bn to the NHS and social care, to allow up to 15,000 people to be discharged from hospital

20 March - Chancellor Rishi Sunak announces that the government will pay 80% of wages for employees not working, up to 2,500 a month, as part of "unprecedented" measures to protect people's jobs.

- Prime Minister Boris Johnson orders all cafes, pubs and restaurants to close from the evening of 20 March, except for take-away food, to tackle coronavirus. All the UK's nightclubs, theatres, cinemas, gyms and leisure centres are told to close "as soon as they reasonably can"

22 March - Boris Johnson warns that "tougher measures" may be introduced if people do not follow government advice on social distancing

23 March - The government announces emergency measures to safeguard the nation's rail network, with season ticket holders given refunds if working from home, and rail franchise agreements nationalised for at least six months to prevent rail companies from collapsing.

- In a televised address, Boris Johnson announces a UK-wide partial lockdown, to contain the spread of the virus. The British public are instructed that they must stay at home, except for certain "very limited purposes" – shopping for basic necessities; for "one form of exercise a day"; for any medical need; and to travel to and from work when "absolutely necessary". However, when these restrictions came into force on 26 March, the statutory instrument omitted any limit on the number of exercise sessions. A number of other restrictions are imposed, with police given powers to enforce the measures, including the use of fines

24 March - For the first time, all of the UK's mobile networks send out a government text alert, ordering people to stay at home. The message reads: "GOV.UK CORONAVIRUS ALERT. New rules in force now: you must stay at home. More info and exemptions at gov.uk/coronavirus Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Save lives."

- Health Secretary Matt Hancock announces the government will open a temporary hospital, the NHS Nightingale Hospital at the ExCeL London, to add extra critical care capacity in response to coronavirus pandemic

26 March - The government announces that the self-employed will be paid 80% of profits, up to 2,500 a month, to help them cope during the economic crisis triggered by COVID-19.
Then Boris tests positive but continues to work in isolation:

Quote:
27 March - Prime Minister Boris Johnson tests positive for COVID-19, and will self-isolate in 10 Downing Street.

29 March - The government will send a letter to 30 million households warning things will "get worse before they get better" and that tighter restrictions could be implemented if necessary. The letter will also be accompanied by a leaflet setting out the government's lockdown rules along with health information.

- Dr Jenny Harries, England's deputy chief medical officer, suggests it could be six months before life can return to "normal", because social distancing measures will have to be reduced "gradually".
.... A lot more continued to happen and there were further funding announcements and guidance coming from the government, with Boris still very involved before he got very ill ...and then:

Quote:
6 April - Prime Minister Boris Johnson is taken into intensive care at St Thomas' Hospital. It is announced that First Secretary of State Dominic Raab will deputise for him.

There are a lot of criticisms that can be levelled at Boris for his handling of this, but the suggestion that he and his government were not treating this as a dangerous pandemic and a looming national crisis before he ended up catching the virus and landing in the ICU is a bare faced lie.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...United_Kingdom
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Last edited by DanaC; 05-17-2020 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:55 AM   #2193
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Guess I'm one of those people who don't see the big picture...
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:44 AM   #2194
DanaC
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I really hate that I had to defend Boris Fucking Johnson
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:01 PM   #2195
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Don't feel bad, The Doctor would've done the same thing. Then he would've regenerated 'cause it would've killed him.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:20 PM   #2196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
I really hate that I had to defend Boris Fucking Johnson
First off, useful responses were done by others at the lower level. He refused to admit a problem existed until late March - too late. Much too late as demonstrated by so many other nations who used science to make a decision.

Second, he only did what was necessary back in February or 1 March. At this point, his actions should have been far more aggressive.

The US, that has some of the worst response, has seen 0.03% of its population killed. UK has seen 0.052% of its population die due to a pathetic response. A percentage equivalent to Italy. Britain's death rates are among the highest.

Boris Johnson remained in denial almost as long as Trump did.

At the same time NYC mayor de Blasio was also in denial at the same time since (we have now learned) his aid (Dr Katz) told him on 10 March, “no proof that closures will help stop the spread.” Also saying that 99% will recover without any harm. (The actual number is maybe 0.4% or 0.6% will die which is why it was a pending disaster.) So de Blasio also did nothing just like Boris Johnson until weeks later. Too little too late.

We are discussing honest people who make decisions from science (like an adult) and not from their emotions (like Johnson who also created another disaster - Brexit. Watch Johnson blame the economic downturn only on Covid-19. And not on him and Brexit.)

Well I am seeing NYCs death rate at somewhere near one in 400 or one in 600 NYC citizens have been killed by Covid-19. If accurate, that puts NYCs numbers about ten times higher than the national average or about 6 times higher than UKs.

Again demonstrates what happens when someone ignored science until late March - as Boris Johnson did.

We know the number of killed Americans is more than China's. Once rhetoric from proverbial liars (including The Don) is eliminated, then China lost 0.02% of their population. Meaning China's leaders (after they stopped denying it) did more than Boris Johnson.

Damning numbers. We know that admitting reality in late March indicated a leader was emotional - did not view science, numbers, or logic like an adult.

BTW, what did it take for de Blasio to finally admit (before Boris Johnson) that he must do something? Reports now say his health department people trooped into his office around 1 March and threatened to resign if he did not do something. A need for action was obvious back then - when Boris Johnson was in public denial. (And when the brainwashed who watch Fake Fox News claimed this was only another flu: "regular old flu being hyped by snowflake libtards.")

The emotional must see something that emotional before they will do their job. Johnson (like Trump) could not bother to listen to science until after 20 March - when he got sick.

Ironically, same adults who are still children also deny global warming. And plenty of other science.

At what point do we finally admit who is logical (advances mankind) and who promotes emotionally inspired lies? Boris Johnson clearly does not deserve to be defended. Doing nothing until the end of March makes obvious he was irresponsible. And does not deserve to be defended.

So who should Trump be casting blame on? The Chinese who took on the challenge too later and managed to result their death rate? Or Boris Johnson who refused to acknowledge a threat until he got sick?

Numbers do not lie. A responsible Boris Johnson (or Trump) would have been fully involved BEFORE 1 March.

When did I buy my masks? Early January. I saw it coming for the same reason I also saw Saddam did not have WMDs. Facts. Even in early January, masks were hard to find because adults who are adults saw this threat that early.

Last edited by tw; 05-17-2020 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:27 PM   #2197
DanaC
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Quote:
Johnson (like Trump) could not bother to listen to science until about 20 March - when he got sick.

You make many valid points, but you seem peculiarly invested in the notion that Johnson did not take the pandemic or the science seriously until he himself got sick.

Again - this is untrue.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:34 PM   #2198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Again - this is untrue
You did not quote the supporting fact why. So you are (unfortunately) doing what extremist are doing. I expect to see a fact that shows Boris Johnson openly addressing this problem when it was obvious on 1 March.

As was posted here long ago, before Johnson became sick, he had missed five of the government’s emergency “COBRA” crisis meetings on the virus. That was one critical meeting every week starting in mid-February when adults saw an impending disaster. Johnson could not be bothered until just before he had to isolate himself at home. Just another damning fact that says he could not be bothered to do his job.

How is that any different than Trump? How is that being a responsible leader? Why would anyone defend this man whose inactions resulted ins 0.052% of the population dead - one of the world's higher numbers?
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:05 PM   #2199
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Quote:
You did not quote the supporting fact why. So you are (unfortunately) doing what extremist are doing. I expect to see a fact that shows Boris Johnson openly addressing this problem when it was obvious on 1 March.
You are changing the goal posts.

You have claimed several times now that Johnson was not treating this as a serious problem until he himself got sick.

I am telling you that is untrue and have posted a timeline of what he and his government were doing prior to him getting sick.

note: I am not saying Boris Johnson has done an outstanding job - I am saying that bit about him not taking it seriously / not listening to the science until he got sick is untrue and I have evidenced that in this thread.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:31 PM   #2200
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
You have claimed several times now that Johnson was not treating this as a serious problem until he himself got sick.

I am telling you that is untrue and have posted a timeline of what he and his government were doing prior to him getting sick.
Show me anything in that list that he did before 20 March. Before that time, only lower level government people were doing anything to protect British citizens. Including COBRA crisis meeting that he intentionally ignored for 6 weeks because the threat (according to him) did not exist.

COBRA, et al was responsible people trying to deal with an impending crisis in February. Johnson could not be bothered. As that timeline also demonstrates.

Again, I expect to see the exact sentence quoted from that timeline that shows Johnson (not anyone else) taking responsibility for an impending crisis. I am asking for it. But again, it is still not detailed. Only listed is a subjective conclusion from a timeline that says only others did something before 20 March - without his cooperation.

Based upon every supporting fact that you have posted, Johnson completely ignored an obvious crisis until after 20 March. Does not matter what responsible people in government did. He did not.

Where are supporting facts (ie he attended a COBRA meeting in mid-February). Sentence from the timeline is quoted. And what he specifically did for that sentence is cited. He did not take it seriously until after 20 March - too late. As your timeline demonstrates.

Does not matter what his government was doing. Does not mater what responsible little people were doing. What matters is what he was doing since - and no way around this - 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Which explains UK's high death rates.

Show me where he decided to address this threat in mid February when patriotic British government officials tried to address it - while he remained in denial. You only showed by how obvious the threat was long before 20 March - when he ignored everything until after 20 March - as he was getting sick.

He was even shacking hands when, if he took it seriously, he would not be doing. Because he did not take it seriously.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:58 PM   #2201
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Why before the 20th March?


My contention is that he was taking this seriously before he got ill with Covid-19.

You have said this:

Quote:
Boris who finally admitted the pandemic exists - only after he ended up in the ICU
and variations thereof on several occasions now.

Boris tested positive for Covid-19 on March 27 - a full 4 days after the Prime Minister announced the country was going into lockdown.

I am not arguing he did a good job (I think he did a very mixed job) I am saying you are spicing your legitimate criticisms with an accusation that is blatantly false.

Could he have taken it more seriously, and sooner? Yes, I think he could have
Could a huge number of Covid-19 deaths have been avoided had a different strategy been followed and had Boris recognised the scale and speed of the threat much sooner? Yes, I think that is probably fair to say.

Did he only 'admit the pandemic exists' after he himself got ill?

No. This is not true. Please stop spreading misinformation.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:20 PM   #2202
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Tw couldn't get on Trump's list; so, now he's trying to get on Johnson's list. He's hoping you'll report him to MI6. Don't do it. Just report him to the NHS so they can have a room waiting for him if he visits.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:07 AM   #2203
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Maybe if he starts now he can get on Biden's list.
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:21 PM   #2204
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Why before the 20th March?
...
My contention is that he was taking this seriously before he got ill with Covid-19.
Where is one fact that supports that hypothesis? He completely ignored the threat until it was too late - 20 March.

Best you can do is speculate he was not symptomatic when he finally acknowledged a threat. So how many days was that? He was tested on 27 March because felt sick for days. Never ignore numbers. So he was probably sick on 20 March. One is typically sick for about a week days before symptoms appear.

Irrelevant that he was sick on 27 March. He refused to acknowledge reality until, at the same time or earlier, even he got sick. And even on 25 March, he acknowledgement was tepid at best. Which explains so many dead Brits.

He intentionally ignored the crisis resulting in some of some of the world's highest death rates. When is that a responsible leader? He remains in denial (just like Putin). High death rates directly traceable to an extremist PM - who could not bother for months to acknowledge reality (as that list also demonstrates).

He refuse to go to COBRA meetings, that were created to address a major crisis, until 6 weeks later. That is Johnson working for Britain? Or Johnson working only for himself? Obviously he was ignoring it. Facts (and that list) say so.

He was even shaking hands when it was obvious that a medical crisis existed. He was still in denial even when he tepidly said a virus might be coming.

Where in that list is one fact that says was acting responsible before ...? I keep demanding a fact. None posted because none exists.

Irrelevant is what others in the Queen's government were doing. He was in denial like an extremist - an adult who uses emotions to make decisions. Same emotions that promoted Brexit.

Lower level government officials saw what was glaringly obvious before 1 March. COBRA meeting started in February because the threat was that obvious, dangerous, and coming. Boris Johnson intentionally ignored them. He could not be bothered to learn facts - until those facts made him deadly sick for six weeks.

Those damn numbers.

From the BBC - incoming Chinese students openly complaining because nobody could be found in the airport to take their temperature. That is Johnson taking this pandemic seriously?

Would Jeremy Corbyn have done better? Again, where are facts that can answer that? Based upon his history, I doubt it.

How about Theresa May? Again, another British leader who could not demonstrate leadership. Britain once had great leaders.

Well George Jr massacred 5000 American servicemen for no purpose. Which leader was less responsible?

Oh those damning facts and numbers.
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:23 PM   #2205
tw
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Originally Posted by Griff View Post
Maybe if he starts now he can get on Biden's list.
Only wacko extremists have such lists. Do you have one? Apparently not.

Hopefully I am on UG's and Henry Quirk's enemies list. They certain have one. A Trump supporter needs a big gun and an enemies list. Then runs around singing patriotic songs and waving big flags.
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