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Old 05-18-2020, 03:32 PM   #2206
DanaC
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My contention is that he was taking this seriously before he got ill with Covid-19.

You have said this:

Quote:
Boris who finally admitted the pandemic exists - only after he ended up in the ICU
and variations thereof on several occasions now.

Boris tested positive for Covid-19 on March 27 - a full 4 days after the Prime Minister announced the country was going into lockdown.




Quote:
Where is one fact that supports that hypothesis? He completely ignored the threat until it was too late - 20 March.

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Old 05-18-2020, 04:22 PM   #2207
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Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
That icon is me trying to get you to do what honest people do. Show me facts. Show me the numbers. No honest person cares about emotional or speculated beliefs. They are irrelevant.

Post the sentence from that list. Then cite where Johnson did anything for that sentence. Never done. And for one obvious reason.

Boris remained in denial until about 20 March - about the same time he got sick.

Post supporting facts. I do not care that extremists claim he did anything before 20 March. Please cite facts. Your unsupported beliefs remains wild speculation - never once supported by a single citation.

DanaC has posted everything that Boris Johnson did before 20 March. That list is empty. Boris Johnson did nothing to empower, support, or acknowledge what subordinate (patriotic) people in Britain were doing. Johnson remained in denial until about 20 March. As a result - another damning fact - Britain has some of the world's highest death rates.

No problem. Putin also remained in denial. So Russia may exceed UK's death numbers. Then we can praise Boris Johnson for being more responsible.

Boris Johnson may have been infected before 20 March. Which is why he tested positive on 27 March. He did nothing until even he got sick. Do not ignore all those dead Brits because Boris Johnson refused to do anything (denied it) for so long.

Please DanaC. It is such a simple thing to do. Cite the sentence from your list - well before 20 March. And show us how Boris Johnson was taking the threat seriously by doing it. It is that simple if Boris was not in denial.

Last edited by tw; 05-18-2020 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:54 PM   #2208
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Boris remained in denial until about 20 March - about the same time he got sick.
Quote:
6 March – The Prime Minister announces 46 million in funding for research into a coronavirus vaccine and rapid diagnostic tests. During a visit to a laboratory in Bedfordshire, he says: "It looks like there will be a substantial period of disruption where we have to deal with this outbreak."
Quote:
DanaC has posted everything that Boris Johnson did before 20 March. That list is empty. Boris Johnson did nothing to empower, support, or acknowledge what subordinate (patriotic) people in Britain were doing.
Just because departmental ministers come up with strategies and plans and announce them - don't think the Prime Minister is not involved - it is a cabinet system.

Quote:
Boris Johnson may have been infected before 20 March
'May' being the operative word

Also- nice to see you have at least dropped the lie that he wasn't taking this seriously until he landed in ICU - it's a step in the right direction.
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Last edited by DanaC; 05-18-2020 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 05-18-2020, 05:08 PM   #2209
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Originally Posted by tw View Post
Please DanaC. It is such a simple thing to do. ...
@DanaC,

Good job babe, always leave them wanting more.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:57 AM   #2210
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Well, you know, I try :P
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:20 AM   #2211
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Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Just because departmental ministers come up with strategies and plans and announce them - don't think the Prime Minister is not involved - it is a cabinet system.
We know repeatedly from history that is exactly what happens. Please stop remaining in denial - just like Boris Johnson. Please learn why disasters happen.

Disasters happen when a leader remains in denial of the obvious. While the little people in mass numbers keep trying to avert it. And yes, it was obvious even in February.

Why is UK's death rate so high? Some Ministers kept trying to do something (ie COBRA) while Boris Johnson kept obstructing it using inaction and not cooperating. Yes Boris Johnson knew about COBRA. And obstructed it by ignoring it.

Learn from Katrina in New Orleans. The little people kept trying to address that problem for a week. Captain of the USS Bataan (an aircraft carrier) even tried to send doctors and medical supplies into New Orleans. General Honore deployed to New Orleans using an excuse so as to not violate posse comitatus. All while George Jr remained in denail, did nothing, and even said, "You're doing a heckuva job Brownie." While people sat in the Superdome and Convention Center without food or water for five days.

(It was the only time I saw Ted Koppel almost loose it after Brownie bluntly lie to him live on national television.)

How ironic. The little 'Ministers' kept trying to save lives while George Jr remained in denial - just like Boris Johnson. Since the little people kept trying to save lives, DanaC says George Jr (and Brownie) were not in denial. She must know. History must be lying.

No problem. Ministers will not try to avert a disaster when the leader remains in denial - a naive conclusion. Why so entrench in defending a man who made Britain's death rate a highest in the world? DanaC, please be decent enough to at least acknowledge that fact. A world highest death rate. Why not? Then you would have to admit that Boris Johnson remained in denial. Therefore DanaC must deny (like Johnson) that Britain has a highest death rate.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Britain's highest death rate is directly traceable to Boris Johnson doing exactly what George Jr did. And what The Don has done. Britain has a high death rate because Boris Johnson clearly remained in denial until after 20 March.

He refused to admit the threat until (and because of his denials) he got deathly sick. Eventually he took a test after having been infected for maybe a week or longer. Ended up deathly sick for six weeks.

How ironic. Six weeks is how long he also denied the reason for and refused to cooperate with COBRA. Apparently six is Satan's favorite number.

Last edited by tw; 05-19-2020 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:43 AM   #2212
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Yada yada yada
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:51 AM   #2213
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Twump, cwrazy he is.

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Old 05-19-2020, 09:58 AM   #2214
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Tw:

You seem to be under some misapprehension that I am arguing Boris did a good job and acted swiftly.

He acted too slowly - he absolutely did not recognise the scale of the impending problem in time to head off the outbreak before it had a chance to gain a foothold, and there were some major errors in judgement along the way.

My contention is that it is wholly inaccurate to suggest he did not recognise it as a pandemic until he was very sick, and a barefaced lie to say he did not take it seriously until he ended up in ICU.

And once he and his government recognised the dangers, a massive package of measures was put in place - BEFORE Boris got sick. Some of them before he could possibly have been experiencing symptoms.

Was it enough? No
Was he foolish early on in treating it like a particularly serious strain of seasonal flu? yes

Had he already started to take it seriously and change tactics before he himself became ill? I believe he had, yes.

Boris and his government have got a lot of stuff wrong - and the cost for that is measured in loss of life.

They also got some stuff right - and that needs recognising alongside the criticisms for what went wrong.

But, I can't really expect an extremist like you, so hemmed in and blinded by your emotional responses, to understand something like that.
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:38 AM   #2215
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Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
My contention is that it is wholly inaccurate to suggest he did not recognise it as a pandemic until he was very sick, and a barefaced lie to say he did not take it seriously until he ended up in ICU.
If that contention is true, then cited are the example that he - not anyone else - he acted so before 20 March.

The Queen's government did what patriotic Brits would do even as Boris Johnson remained in denial. They did things like COBRA. Can and did do so without his permission. Since that, BTW, is how democracies, successful corporations, and other productive organizations work.

If the British government is a dictatorship, then COBRA could not exist. Dictatorships stifle innovation and make things worse. In well run democracies, the little people make decisions. And then the boss goes with facts.

In this case, the boss so ignored the facts as to even refuse to participate in COBRA for five weeks. He was in denial. He refused to listen to facts.

Boris Johnson not only ignored what the little people were doing to save British lives. He refuse to participate in what they clearly stated as necessary. Johnson remained in denial until 20 March.

From Reuters on 7 April 2020:
Quote:
If unconstrained and if the virus behaved as in China, up to four-fifths of Britons could be infected and one in a hundred might die, wrote the scientists, members of an official committee set up to model the spread of pandemic flu, on March 2. ... that was a prediction of over 500,000 deaths in this nation of nearly 70 million.
So on 3 March, he said
Quote:
Our country remains extremely well prepared.
He continued shaking hands, remained in denial, and did nothing. Still did not participate in COBRA meetings.

Quote:
The upbeat tone of that briefing stood in sharp contrast with the growing unease of many of the government’s scientific advisers behind the scenes. They were already convinced that Britain was on the brink of a disastrous outbreak, a Reuters investigation has found.

Interviews with more than 20 British scientists, key officials and senior sources in Johnson’s Conservative Party, and a study of minutes of advisory committee meetings and public testimony and documents, show how these scientific advisers concluded early the virus could be devastating.
Quote:
By the end of January, the government’s chief medical adviser, Whitty, was explaining to politicians in private, according to at least two people who spoke to him, that if the virus escaped China, it would in time infect the great majority of people in Britain. It could only be slowed down, not stopped. On Jan 30, the government raised the threat level to “moderate” from “low.
The little people were studying in early January. And by end of January realized how severe it could be. But Boris Johnson could not be bothered. Reuters even suggests why. He felt Britain had good scientist. So he could ignore it. Did so until 20 March. Long after he was told how bad it could be. Apparently he was too busy celebrating Brexit.

Furthermore, EU meeting from 13 February thought 30 March on this threat could have made the problem obvious. Britain could have attended. But again, Boris Johnson used his emotions to make decisions. Britain did not attend and missed out on meetings that, for example, defined how various EU nations could cooperate - share knowledge and equipment. He was in denial as well as regarded the EU as some kind of evil.

Throughout February, Johnson received daily briefings on the threat. And did nothing. Editor of the Lancet, Horton, said in his editorial that the government did nothing in February to prepare quarantine restriction plans, mass testing, and procuring equipment such as ventilators and PPE.

Government did not even set up labs. Then suddenly in mid-March, laboratories all over Britain received abrupt and urgent requests to hand over nucleic acid extraction instruments used in testing.

Government officials finally put out emergency calls for ventilators in 16 March. Even to France, New Zealand, and Indonesia.

Nicky Longley of London's Hospital for Tropical Diseases knew planning was not happening and was desperately needed in mid-February. The little people desperately tried to address the threat. But suffered a severe problem.

First indication that Boris Johnson even listened was on 12 March in a speech when he said, "families are going to lose loved ones before their time." That is the first time he apparently listened to dire warnings. But still did nothing.

By 13 March, professional football leagues suspended their games since players were already infected. Other institutions had already closed because the threat was so obvious to the public. But Johnson even refused to close schools and ban mass gatherings. He was still in denial with Imperial College's warning of 510,000 deaths on 16 March.

Apparently that report finally got the attention of Johnson and the Trump administration. A few days later, Boris Johnson finally admitted to "Britain, we have a problem."

The little people said even in January that a serious threat exists. But nothing much happened until the nation took it seriously. Before Boris Johnson finally admitted to what he should have known almost two months earlier.

No way around the fact. He ignore the threat until even major institutions finally did things on their own.

It's the Queen's government. A government that tried to address a threat while Boris Johnson did nothing - remained in denial. As any good extremist would when his emotions trump facts. Which also explains another disaster called Brexit.

DanaC. I once thought you were a moderate. I never once insulted you. I simply insisted you do what an adult does. Provide facts. Such as the many above that show how wrong you are. Your feelings are irrelevant. Above facts are. Please stop posting using UG logic. It does not become you.

Queen's government recognized the threat in January. He did not even realize a threat might exist until 12 March. And did not take it seriously until about 20 March. Long after everyone else knew better. Facts above make that obvious.

Last edited by tw; 05-20-2020 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:48 AM   #2216
BigV
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tw, I wish you would just STFU. This horse--dead. Go bray on in the other political threads where it's easier to ignore you.
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:15 PM   #2217
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:16 PM   #2218
DanaC
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I never once insulted you. I simply insisted you do what an adult does
Said with a straight face at that
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:17 PM   #2219
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Oh I like that Griff
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:18 PM   #2220
Griff
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It's an old Mad Magazine bit.
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