Social media censorship roundup

[Undertoad]

The US government is not really involved in the social media censorship question.

But if it were widely involved, it would make the problem far worse, by applying more ridiculous censorship, in more ham-handed ways.

We know this already. Social media just gets rid of everything with "Nazi" in it; an otherwise reasonable UK government goes a huge step further, and fines a pug owner 800 pounds for making a joke about Nazis. Sends police around to question the nature of tweets. Sometimes arrests joking tweeters and charges them.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The US government is not really involved in the social media censorship question.

But if it were widely involved, it would make the problem far worse, by applying more ridiculous censorship, in more ham-handed ways.

We know this already. Social media just gets rid of everything with "Nazi" in it; an otherwise reasonable UK government goes a huge step further, and fines a pug owner 800 pounds for making a joke about Nazis. Sends police around to question the nature of tweets. Sometimes arrests joking tweeters and charges them.

I think they know that. They DID try to get involved (Communications Decency Act), but found it to be unenforceable.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

an otherwise reasonable UK government

Wait. What?

The UK government has never been reasonable. Incidentally, this probably didn't help the man's case:

Meechan was supported in court by by Tommy Robinson, former leader of far-right group the English Defence League (EDL).

[Undertoad]

As opposed to all the other governments we like so well. If we threw a dart at a globe, chances are the government it landed on would be actively limiting what sites people can visit and pawing through their searches, as much as possible.

Meechan was supported in court by by Tommy Robinson

If that had an effect on the outcome it is just that much more shameful.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

As opposed to all the other governments we like so well. If we threw a dart at a globe, chances are the government it landed on would be actively limiting what sites people can visit and pawing through their searches, as much as possible.

The UK has always liked to listen in on phones and the internet.

If that had an effect on the outcome it is just that much more shameful.

If you are arguing in court that the Nazi comments were taken out of context, or were a joke, then having Tommy Robinson show up isn't the best thing that could happen to you.

[Undertoad]

To imagine that the outcome of a public trial would be affected by whom is in favor of the different sides is...



...a pretty solid argument for keeping government out of managing any social media, in any way

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

To imagine that the outcome of a public trial would be affected by whom is in favor of the different sides is...



...a pretty solid argument for keeping government out of managing any social media, in any way

I'm not disagreeing.

[Undertoad]

Reddit "quarantined" /r/Wuhan_Flu, which means you can read it but the "official word" is that it's ungood. (The irony that they call it "quarantining" is not lost.) Please overlook the $150,000,000 investment a Chinese tech firm made in Reddit months ago. Surely that would not affect how they manage the site. LOL.

(Also, aside from the crappy management and moderation, Reddit is slowly turning into shit as teens invade it. That is just my opinion)

Zero Hedge was banned from Twitter for Wuhan-related journalism. It has been noticed that many social media bans come shortly after Buzzfeed calls a PR department, and says they are going to run a story on a user, and "would you like to comment"? In this case it came after Buzzfeed wrote a story alleging that Zero Hedge doxxed a Chinese researcher. Zero Hedge disagrees.

[Clodfobble]

I read the whole Zero Hedge article. IMHO, they are engaged in incitement that doesn't help the situation and deserved a temporary ban.

First, knowing where the virus came from--specifically, whether it was a natural species-jump or an accidental/intentional leak from a biological weapons lab as Zero Hedge alleges--is necessary in the long-term, but it doesn't make a difference right now when it comes to containing and treating it. Righteous anger and due punishment can only prevent future problems, not deal with current ones.

Second, let's say this one scientist did have "answers" to give. Those answers would have to be legitimately received/extracted by people with power to have any meaning. If I, an angry American citizen, call his personal number a thousand times a day until he relents and says, "You're right! I totally developed this virus and it escaped!"... then what? I call my Senator? I fly over and punch him as he so richly deserves? I post his confession to the internet so other people can go over and punch him, too? I create an outcry so big that the Chinese government is shamed into publicly scapegoating him--which they may have done anyway, and may actually be a tiny part of the truth that they are happy to concede, and in any case can spin a thousand ways to their own purposes?

Third, it's completely disingenuous to claim "the contact information was public so it isn't doxxing." The word fire is just a word, too, until it's shouted in a crowded theater. Context matters. Zero Hedge told their hordes of followers that this one person needed interrogating, and posted his name, picture, address, and phone number precisely because they know the response would be much lower if their readers were expected to seek out that information on their own. The main feature of doxxing is that it bypasses the natural selection of lethargy--and that's precisely what Zero Hedge intended to happen here.

General rule of thumb: if it's a "call to action" of any kind, it's not news, it's incitement. The only judgment call to be made is whether that incitement is beneficial to the individual, society, or neither.

[Flint]

I didn't read the article and I'm not going to. Doxxing is bad. People who do it should be drawn and quartered. If you support it you're an asshole.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I read the whole Zero Hedge article. IMHO, they are engaged in incitement that doesn't help the situation and deserved a temporary ban.

First, knowing where the virus came from--specifically, whether it was a natural species-jump or an accidental/intentional leak from a biological weapons lab as Zero Hedge alleges--is necessary in the long-term, but it doesn't make a difference right now when it comes to containing and treating it. Righteous anger and due punishment can only prevent future problems, not deal with current ones.

Second, let's say this one scientist did have "answers" to give. Those answers would have to be legitimately received/extracted by people with power to have any meaning. If I, an angry American citizen, call his personal number a thousand times a day until he relents and says, "You're right! I totally developed this virus and it escaped!"... then what? I call my Senator? I fly over and punch him as he so richly deserves? I post his confession to the internet so other people can go over and punch him, too? I create an outcry so big that the Chinese government is shamed into publicly scapegoating him--which they may have done anyway, and may actually be a tiny part of the truth that they are happy to concede, and in any case can spin a thousand ways to their own purposes?

Third, it's completely disingenuous to claim "the contact information was public so it isn't doxxing." The word fire is just a word, too, until it's shouted in a crowded theater. Context matters. Zero Hedge told their hordes of followers that this one person needed interrogating, and posted his name, picture, address, and phone number precisely because they know the response would be much lower if their readers were expected to seek out that information on their own. The main feature of doxxing is that it bypasses the natural selection of lethargy--and that's precisely what Zero Hedge intended to happen here.

General rule of thumb: if it's a "call to action" of any kind, it's not news, it's incitement. The only judgment call to be made is whether that incitement is beneficial to the individual, society, or neither.

Zero Hedge is good for this sort of thing.

It's basically a boring version of Alex Jones.

[Undertoad]

You are right, partially IMO -- just my few quibbles --

If I, an angry American citizen, call his personal number a thousand times a day until he relents

You speak Mandarin! I'm not surprised.

told their hordes of followers

As a writer, I think you should carefully reconsider both this description of what Zero Hedge did, and who their readership is. (It includes Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey)

Especially if your readership is interested in an unorthodox point of view -- and what worthwhile readership isn't? You would not want them, and your relationship to them, described that way.

and that's precisely what Zero Hedge intended to happen here

I don't share your superpower of immediately knowing secret intentions in detail.

But I think, if harassment was the intent, they would put the guy's number right on Twitter. Instead, they put it at the very bottom of a very long post, at what appears to be an excellent vector of information. I figured the point was to encourage better original reporting.

Righteous anger and due punishment can only prevent future problems, not deal with current ones.

I'm okay with only preventing future problems.

And it's still a gray area, innit? If I think a gummint official is lying, or, say, I dunno, Tucker Carlson - surely I can give out their office number. But definitely not their home number.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Seems to if the guy they are calling out did indeed create this virus and has been working with it before it escaped, he might know some weaknesses, some vulnerabilities of the virus, maybe even the best way to kill it. If that's true, then that information should be extracted from him and distributed. If it's not true, then this is a time wasting red herring.

[Flint]

Yeah I'm sure THIS is the way to get things done. LET'S HARASS THE SANDY HOOK PARENTS! LET'S HARASS THE DELEGATES WHO DIDN'T VOTE FOR BERNIE! HARASS A SENATOR SO HE WON'T CONFIRM KAVANAUGH! HARASS A VACCINE SCIENTIST UNTIL HE ADMITS THAT VACCINES CAUSE AREA 51 NANOBOTS TO CREATE CHEMTRAILS!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Who said harass him, if the story is true then the health people should find out everything he knows about the virus.