Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[lookout123]

which court rulings support your view on the immigration issue radar? how many cases have been filed?

illegal illegal illegal illegal illegal illegal. like it or not the law says there are legal requirement for entrance into the US. therefore anyone in the US not following those requirements is by definition and illegal immigrant. you may argue the validity of the law but you cannot argue the law isn't in place so until you are able to get a ruling in your favor you had better accept these people are here illegally.

[Radar]

The courts are below the Constitution, including the Supreme Court. The U.S. Constitution specifically prohibits the federal government from taking part in, legislating, regulating, or controlling anything that isn't specifically enumerated in the U.S. Constitution or from having "implied powers" and guess what?

Immigration is not mentioned so what I'm saying is a stone, cold, indisputable, undeniable, irrefutable fact.

As the Supreme Court said in Marbury vs. Madison, all laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void. There is no need for judicial review. They are unconstitutional in their face and automatically null and void. The U.S. Supreme Court are not the sole arbiters of the Constitution. All citizens not only have the right to determine whether or not laws are Constitutional, but the duty to do so.

The federal government has no more legitimate authority to make a law pertaining to immigration or an organization of thugs to enforce them than I have the authority to make a law stating that you will shave your head bald and wear a pink speedo for the rest of your life. You would ignore any laws I made like that. You don't ignore the government because they have more guns than me. Their guns don't lend them any legitimacy, nor does the title "government".

[Happy Monkey]

Of course. What's the alternative? Require papers from anyone who seems foreign in an ER?

[TheMercenary]

The problem still exists.

[jinx]

But if I show up in an ER they'll want to see proof that Ive paid for insurance, right?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

But if I show up in an ER they'll want to see proof that Ive paid for insurance, right?

As well as your ID, your home phone number, address, SSN, Insurance ID numbers, etc.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by jinx

But if I show up in an ER they'll want to see proof that Ive paid for insurance, right?

They'll want to. And if they can get it, they'll want it before treatment. But they can't, and shouldn't, deny treatment if they don't get it. For obvious, practical, reasons like time-sensitive situations, unconscious victims, or contagion, and for moral reasons, both general and Hyppocratic.

[Shawnee123]

The problem still exists.

So rather than make things better for the deserving citizens it's better to not change anything because the illegals will still get care? What do you propose to change that part (assuming as you said that the problem is that part won't change in the current proprosal; it's not addressed) that would make the proposal to your liking? I don't get the logic. Don't change it because the millions it will benefit won't negate the small percentage who get around the system?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

So rather than make things better for the deserving citizens it's better to not change anything because the illegals will still get care? What do you propose to change that part (assuming as you said that the problem is that part won't change in the current proprosal; it's not addressed) that would make the proposal to your liking? I don't get the logic. Don't change it because the millions it will benefit won't negate the small percentage who get around the system?

Exactly. It's better to screw the 95% of the population out of health care reform even because 5% who are here without papers might get help when they are sick too.

[TheMercenary]

I don't have the solution. Really. But they are costing taxpayers millions if not billions of dollars every year. Maybe we should send the bill to their home country governments or withhold $ from aid programs in direct proportion to the costs of the healthcare. I do know that they need to come up with a plan and they need to address the issue.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I don't have the solution. Really. But they are costing taxpayers millions if not billions of dollars every year. Maybe we should send the bill to their home country governments or withhold $ from aid programs in direct proportion to the costs of the healthcare. I do know that they need to come up with a plan and they need to address the issue.

Wrong. Undocumented immigrants don't cost American citizens a single penny when everything is accounted for. They contribute more money into the economy and the tax base than they use in social services. This is an irrefutable fact.

When Americans are visiting the UK and they get hurt, do you know what happens? They get medical care and no bill. Why? Because not giving medical care to someone in need is inhuman and asinine.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

Wrong. Undocumented immigrants don't cost American citizens a single penny when everything is accounted for. They contribute more money into the economy and the tax base than they use in social services. This is an irrefutable fact.

When Americans are visiting the UK and they get hurt, do you know what happens? They get medical care and no bill. Why? Because not giving medical care to someone in need is inhuman and asinine.

Wrong. We have been through this before and I am not going to go through it with you again. The benifits are not directly reimbursed to the hospitals and healthcare providers, if they were it would be a non-issue. The costs for everyone go up for people who have to pay and or have insurance when others who get care get it for free. Market forces at work. This is an irrefutable fact.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Radar

Wrong. Undocumented immigrants don't cost American citizens a single penny when everything is accounted for. They contribute more money into the economy and the tax base than they use in social services. This is an irrefutable fact.

When Americans are visiting the UK and they get hurt, do you know what happens? They get medical care and no bill. Why? Because not giving medical care to someone in need is inhuman and asinine.

I believe that is also true of other countries as well. At least, I know someone who was injured while on vacation in France, and they treated her at no charge. I know someone who was deathly ill while in CHINA, and they treated her, at no charge. I know someone who was in motorcycle accident in Australia, and they fixed his teeth. I don't know if they charged him or not, but he sure did have great teeth!

And hey, even fucking RWANDA has universal health care now, with home visits. http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/537/index.html

[DanaC]

And if you don't have insurance when you show up what will happen under the current system? If you have no insurance to show proof of?

Right now, if you have insurance do you have to show proof of it?

[Shawnee123]

I doubt, under ANY system, our hospitals would (TYPICALLY---always gotta disclaimer everything in the Cellar 'cause someone knew someone personally and IRL who died that way) let someone die on the front step because they can't produce the appropriate papers. If this begins to be the case, I REALLY don't want to live here anymore.