Guns don't kill people ....

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

ETA: Was replying to Lookout.

Ahh, if guns are illegal only criminals will have guns.

And police, security guards, and everyone else with a legitimate reason to have one.

It is very easy to slip from "only criminals" will have guns to "all criminals will have guns", but that doesn't follow.

Legitimate is the sticky part isn't it?

I didn't mean to say all criminals will have guns. In fact probably fewer criminals would have guns because they would be more scarce. The some criminals having them and zero law abiding citizens having them part is a given under your scenario though. Remember, the courts have already ruled that the police have no obligation to prevent crime, only investigate it after it has occured.

On the flip side of all that is a law restricting guns to law enforcement and military (even if it were constitutional) would have the effect of making people who are law abiding citizens into criminals because I can guarantee a large section of the populace will not turn them in peacefully.

[Lamplighter]

Again, slowly it turns...

The Associated Press
WASHINGTON
April 5, 2012, 03:33 pm ET

Coca-Cola Ends Ties To Conservative Law Writers

Coca-Cola Co. has terminated its relationship with a conservative group
seen by some as an incubator for a string of new state voter ID laws and
a marketer of laws like Florida's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense statute.
<snip>
ALEC brings together state and federal lawmakers, who pay $100 for a two-year membership,
and corporations, which pay between $2,500 and $25,000 for an annual membership.
The legislators and corporate representatives draft templates of legislation
that can be used by lawmakers and lobbyists as models for state or federal legislation.
<snip>
Koch Industries, whose top executives Charles and David Koch are prominent supporters
of conservative causes, is one of the largest corporations supporting Washington-based ALEC.
<snip>
Several states have passed laws requiring voters to show specific ID,
toughening voter registration or reducing early voting days.
The voting laws have been seen by civil rights and other groups, as well as many Democrats,
as an attempt to suppress the votes of African Americans, Latinos, the elderly and students.

Huffington Post
Dan Foomkin
4/5/12
American Legislative Exchange Council, Ultra-Conservative Lobby, Loses 2 Major Funders

WASHINGTON -- Succumbing to pressure from public interest groups,
Coca Cola and Pepsico have severed their ties to the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC),
an ultra-conservative lobby group that has pushed so-called Stand Your Ground gun legislation
and voter-identification bills through state legislatures across the country.
<snip>

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Legitimate is the sticky part isn't it?

I didn't mean to say all criminals will have guns. In fact probably fewer criminals would have guns because they would be more scarce. The some criminals having them and zero law abiding citizens having them part is a given under your scenario though. Remember, the courts have already ruled that the police have no obligation to prevent crime, only investigate it after it has occured.

Really? That might be a thing you could look at changing too. And regardless of "obligation", I can't believe any (well, many) police would stand back and watch some thug on a rampage, wait until he's finished, then go and arrest him. They intervene in that, when they can.

On the flip side of all that is a law restricting guns to law enforcement and military (even if it were constitutional) would have the effect of making people who are law abiding citizens into criminals because I can guarantee a large section of the populace will not turn them in peacefully.

We had that argument here during our gun buy-back. Maybe a few people kept their guns, but there hasn't been a significant issue with it. Different situation, of course.
Of course, if such a law were somehow passed in the US, so many crooks already have guns and wouldn't hand them in, that it would be a total gimme for crooks. From where the US is now, I don't think you COULD achieve a low-gun society. Not without more trouble than it would be worth, anyway.