Impeding changes to our Health Care system

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

If you don't think that members of Congress and other critics of healthcare in the US have made comparisons to rates of disease and cost outcomes to that in European countries you have not been paying attention to the debate. It is not about "demagoguery" as you attempt to fend off critisim of the Demoncratic plans. Talk about fear mongering. You and Hillary Clinton have much in common, "It's a Right Wing Conspiracy!". It is about honest debate about how Congress plans to implement the most sweeping social change in US history since the social programs of FDR.

Sure...Republican members of Congress (not to mention the town hall crazies) with the never ending charges of "socialism" and "death panels to pull the plug on grandma" and "big brother making your health care decisions" is not demagoguery.

It is honest debate.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Sure...screaming "socialism" and "death panels to pull the plug on grandma" and "big brother making your health care decisions" is not demagoguery.

I am not screaming anything. And after further review I modified my stance on the Bill and EOL counseling. I never used the term "Death Pannel" nor supported such idiocy. Try again my partisan comrade.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I am not screaming anything. And after further review I modified my stance on the Bill and EOL counseling. I never used the term "Death Pannel" nor supported such idiocy. Try again my partisan comrade.

Hmmmm...you posted at least two partisan editorials from Betsy Mccaughey that I can recall on the "death panels" and other false characterizations of the current proposals....and, when challenged, you even said the "death panels" were, at worst, only a "slight" exaggeration.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Hmmmm...you posted at least two partisan editorials from Betsy Mccaughey that I can recall on the "death panels" and other false characterizations of the current proposals.

I am not screaming anything. And after further review I modified my stance on the Bill and EOL counseling. I never used the term "Death Pannel" nor supported such idiocy. Try again my partisan comrade.

SO now you are running away from your own posts (paraphrase - "death panels only a slight exaggeration")

Cool!

That doesnt change the fact that Republicans in Congress are still using the same demagoguery....."socialism" and "death panels to pull the plug on grandma" and "big brother making your health care decisions"

How is that an honest debate?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

SO now you are running away from your own posts ("death panels only a slight exaggeration")

Cool!

That doesnt change the fact that Republicans in Congress are still using the same demagoguery....."socialism" and "death panels to pull the plug on grandma" and "big brother making your health care decisions"

How is that an honest debate?

I haven't run from anything. The Death Panel issue has been debunked nearly as soon as it came out. The bigger issue was that they were going to reimburse people for the discussion. I could give a shit about Republickins in Congress. They are not in charge. The Demoncrats are in charge and have been in charge for more than 2 years. The responsiblity lies with them. This is about the Obama and Demoncratic plans for healthcare reform. Not about what the minority says but what about the majority are trying to Rham through, which thank God they have been prevented from doing in this case.

I get it...ignore the lies on the Right that have made an honest discussion of the issue virtually impossible, and blame the Left.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I get it...ignore the lies on the Right that have made an honest discussion of the issue virtually impossible, and blame the Left.

No, ignore the lies of the Left and the Right and pick apart the Bill the Dems have tried to rush through Congress.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No, ignore the lies of the Left and the Right and pick apart the Bill the Dems have tried to rush through Congress.

Thank you for agreeing with me that we all should ignore most of the partisan false and misleading editorials from the Right (Betsy Mccaughey et al) that you flooded the discussion with for 40some pages.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Thank you for agreeing with me that we all should ignore most of the partisan false and misleading editorials from the Right (Betsy Mccaughey et al) that you flooded the discussion with for 40some pages.

Not what I said.

A random sample of my posts from 3 pages:

Politifact.com
MILT FREUDENHEIM from the NYT
Amanda Carpenter from the Washington Times
DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK from the NYT
Caroline Baum from Bloomberg
GENERAL EDITORIAL FROM NYT
A BUNCH OF STUFF FROM THE WSJ

[TheMercenary]

This is a bit long but a really great read about the state of healthcare today. As the cover states, "What Washington doesn't get about Healthcare".

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

[Radar]

I'm as libertarian as anyone can get, but I still believe that there are some things that should not have a profit motive attached to them, and health care is one of them.

For those who are stupid enough to suggest the impending health care reform is even remotely socialist, you are insane.

Nobody is discussing a total government takeover of health care, though nations that have done it like the UK pay 1/3 of what Americans pay and they cover everyone including visitors to their country while giving superior health care than what is available in America even with great health insurance.

The Obama administration is merely trying to level the playing field a bit and enforce a few changes so people aren't screwed over by insurance companies. These will not drive up the cost of health care, but may eat into the profits of insurance companies.



Here are 8 FACTS about the upcoming health care reform.


8 WAYS HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM PROVIDES SECURITY AND STABILITY TO ALL AMERICANS

1. Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.

2. Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

3. Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

4. Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.

5. Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

6. Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

7. Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

8. Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.



Here are 8 of the top MYTHS (aka lies) about the health insurance reform being proposed by the Obama administration.

COMMON MYTHS ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM

1. It's a myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing." To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.

2. It's a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis.

3. It's a malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors. For seniors who want to consult with their family and physicians about end-of life decisions, reform will help to cover these voluntary, private consultations for those who want help with these personal and difficult family decisions.

4. It's a myth that health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now. To the contrary, the President's budget significantly expands coverage under the VA, extending care to 500,000 more veterans who were previously excluded. The VA Healthcare system will continue to be available for all eligible veterans.

5. It's a myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses. To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses, provide tax credits to help them pay for employee coverage and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.

6. It's myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits. To the contrary, reform will improve the long-term financial health of Medicare, ensure better coordination, eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies, and help to close the Medicare "doughnut" hole to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors.

7. It's myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.

8. It is an absurd myth that government will be in charge of your bank accounts. Health insurance reform will simplify administration, making it easier and more convenient for you to pay bills in a method that you choose. Just like paying a phone bill or a utility bill, you can pay by traditional check, or by a direct electronic payment. And forms will be standardized so they will be easier to understand. The choice is up to you - and the same rules of privacy will apply as they do for all other electronic payments that people make.

[TheMercenary]

FTR.

Originally Posted by Radar

I'm as libertarian as anyone can get, but I still believe that there are some things that should not have a profit motive attached to them, and health care is one of them.

For those who are stupid enough to suggest the impending health care reform is even remotely socialist, you are insane.

Nobody is discussing a total government takeover of health care, though nations that have done it like the UK pay 1/3 of what Americans pay and they cover everyone including visitors to their country while giving superior health care than what is available in America even with great health insurance.

The Obama administration is merely trying to level the playing field a bit and enforce a few changes so people aren't screwed over by insurance companies. These will not drive up the cost of health care, but may eat into the profits of insurance companies.



Here are 8 FACTS about the upcoming health care reform.


8 WAYS HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM PROVIDES SECURITY AND STABILITY TO ALL AMERICANS

1. Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.

2. Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

3. Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

4. Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.

5. Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

6. Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

7. Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

8. Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.



Here are 8 of the top MYTHS (aka lies) about the health insurance reform being proposed by the Obama administration.

COMMON MYTHS ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM

1. It's a myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing." To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.

2. It's a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis.

3. It's a malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors. For seniors who want to consult with their family and physicians about end-of life decisions, reform will help to cover these voluntary, private consultations for those who want help with these personal and difficult family decisions.

4. It's a myth that health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now. To the contrary, the President's budget significantly expands coverage under the VA, extending care to 500,000 more veterans who were previously excluded. The VA Healthcare system will continue to be available for all eligible veterans.

5. It's a myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses. To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses, provide tax credits to help them pay for employee coverage and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.

6. It's myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits. To the contrary, reform will improve the long-term financial health of Medicare, ensure better coordination, eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies, and help to close the Medicare "doughnut" hole to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors.

7. It's myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.

8. It is an absurd myth that government will be in charge of your bank accounts. Health insurance reform will simplify administration, making it easier and more convenient for you to pay bills in a method that you choose. Just like paying a phone bill or a utility bill, you can pay by traditional check, or by a direct electronic payment. And forms will be standardized so they will be easier to understand. The choice is up to you - and the same rules of privacy will apply as they do for all other electronic payments that people make.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Radar

I'm as libertarian as anyone can get, but I still believe that there are some things that should not have a profit motive attached to them, and health care is one of them.

Just curious, but why do you pick this facet of life out and deem it necessary to receive government intervention as opposed to letting the free hand of the market fix the problem like everything else? Surely, if people didn't like the care they were getting from current insurance providers and wanted something better, any number of competing businesses would thrive off the desires of the customers and provide the services people want. Why no "if you don't like it, don't buy it/start your own"?

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Radar

For those who are stupid enough to suggest the impending health care reform is even remotely socialist, you are insane.

Not insane -- just a classic response in politics. Nothing new, here.