Cramming Bush's "democracy" down the throat of the world

iamthewalrus109 · 02-28-2005, 07:59 AM

Putin's perspective is exactly what makes Bush's comments so pitifully ill-timed. Of course you have to ask yourself that, its why one can become alarmed with the Bush approach on this one. But from an American foriegn policy perspective, acknowledging Putin's view point, should only be for the purposes of greater world stability and US geo-political strategy. You shoot for the top, the ideal, but when a country isn't exactly like us, you have to keep watch, but don't go about humilating necessary allies in the effort to thwart arms proliferation, this should be a bigger policy objective. Both us and Russia need to have an understanding at this crucial period to manage arm issues effectively.

-Walrus

russotto · 02-28-2005, 12:24 PM

Bush lecturing Putin on freedom and democracy would be a bit more understandable if he actually believed in it himself. Or could convincingly fake it. Reagan fell into one of those two categories; Bush sure doesn't.

tw · 02-28-2005, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russotto

Bush lecturing Putin on freedom and democracy would be a bit more understandable if he actually believed in it himself. Or could convincingly fake it. Reagan fell into one of those two categories; Bush sure doesn't.

Rather ironic that the man who would criticize Putin for diminishing freedom in Russia is the same man who threatens American freedom with the Patriot Acts.

They can enter your house, secretly. If they find something, then they can now go to a judge, get a search warrant, come back, and claim they found that evidence. Without violating the Fourth Amendment? This same man who so threatens American civil rights would criticize Putin? This same president who authorizes torture and denies due process in Guantanamo (where most every prisioner is now admittedly innocent) would criticize the Russians? This same man who lies to the world so that he can unilaterally attack another sovereign nation would criticize Putin for actions in the Caucuses?

Does not matter. Anyone, such as Europeans or the NY Times, who would note these glaring discontinuities must be anti-American. God's chosen president could not be wrong.

iamthewalrus109 · 03-01-2005, 11:39 AM

To be fair, the cracking down on civil liberties and the acceptance by much of the press in the US, and more moderate Republicans is a huge factor in the control that Bush exerts on the US. Fear and patrotism keeps the present system afloat. It's only when the populace tires of such tactics, and the government truly goes too far as in the case of the Cold War domestic intelligence efforts that any of this will be addressed, that is if we last long enough to see 2010. A good inidcator of a lightening of intelligence tactics will be a cooling down of a percieved threat. In the 70's Nixon's detente, including his arm limitations agreements with the Soviets, his visit to China, and the end of the Vietnam conflict signaled a cooling down of tensions in the cold war, not to mention the general tiredness of the American public for such a framework. These events parsed with a Democrat controlled Congress, great social change, and Watergate signaled the death toll of that era of the national security state, at least for awhile. The mid to late 70's represented one of the freer periods in this country's history, as well as the most recent reconsideration of national security efforts in the name of America's protection. It stands to reason that simliar multi-prong changes in the framework will be the prelude to the airing out of current abuses, now shrouded in fear and loyalty. The time will come, but for now we are in the midst of the build up, the reconsideration, is some time to come. After the deaths of many more service people, and continuing intelligence abuses, and the unveiling of scandals no longer tolerated in the name of national security.

-Walrus

02-28-2005, 07:59 AM	#1
iamthewalrus109 High Propagandist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	Putin's perspective is exactly the point Putin's perspective is exactly what makes Bush's comments so pitifully ill-timed. Of course you have to ask yourself that, its why one can become alarmed with the Bush approach on this one. But from an American foriegn policy perspective, acknowledging Putin's view point, should only be for the purposes of greater world stability and US geo-political strategy. You shoot for the top, the ideal, but when a country isn't exactly like us, you have to keep watch, but don't go about humilating necessary allies in the effort to thwart arms proliferation, this should be a bigger policy objective. Both us and Russia need to have an understanding at this crucial period to manage arm issues effectively. -Walrus

03-01-2005, 11:39 AM	#4
iamthewalrus109 High Propagandist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	The glare of patriotism, the cloud of fear and the gloss of of the "free" press To be fair, the cracking down on civil liberties and the acceptance by much of the press in the US, and more moderate Republicans is a huge factor in the control that Bush exerts on the US. Fear and patrotism keeps the present system afloat. It's only when the populace tires of such tactics, and the government truly goes too far as in the case of the Cold War domestic intelligence efforts that any of this will be addressed, that is if we last long enough to see 2010. A good inidcator of a lightening of intelligence tactics will be a cooling down of a percieved threat. In the 70's Nixon's detente, including his arm limitations agreements with the Soviets, his visit to China, and the end of the Vietnam conflict signaled a cooling down of tensions in the cold war, not to mention the general tiredness of the American public for such a framework. These events parsed with a Democrat controlled Congress, great social change, and Watergate signaled the death toll of that era of the national security state, at least for awhile. The mid to late 70's represented one of the freer periods in this country's history, as well as the most recent reconsideration of national security efforts in the name of America's protection. It stands to reason that simliar multi-prong changes in the framework will be the prelude to the airing out of current abuses, now shrouded in fear and loyalty. The time will come, but for now we are in the midst of the build up, the reconsideration, is some time to come. After the deaths of many more service people, and continuing intelligence abuses, and the unveiling of scandals no longer tolerated in the name of national security. -Walrus Last edited by iamthewalrus109; 03-01-2005 at 11:44 AM.

02-28-2005, 12:24 PM	#2
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Bush lecturing Putin on freedom and democracy would be a bit more understandable if he actually believed in it himself. Or could convincingly fake it. Reagan fell into one of those two categories; Bush sure doesn't.

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