I like Richard Dawkins

[DanaC]

There - I've said it.

It's become very fashionable to declare one's own atheism/agnosticism and caveat that with a declaration that Richard Dawkins is a dick/arrogant blow hard/militant atheist giving other atheists a bad name/humourless conversationalist etc. etc. etc.

But, I am an atheist and I really like Richard Dawkins. Not just because I think he is right about a lot of stuff, but because he seems a lovely, thoughtful, sincere advocate for science and rationalism and a very, very clever man.

Just lately there's been another slew of anti-Dawkins stories in the media. And, as usual most of them are tearing into him for things he hasn't said. This seems to be a bit of a pattern and it really irritates me when I see it. Hence this little thread.

Now, I'm not saying that there are no genuine grounds for someone else to dislike him, or take issue with his ideas and work. Someone sitting in the audience (or watching on Youtube) as he argues with another panelist in a debate may well find themselves thinking he's an arrogant prick - fair enough. I don't see it myself, but that's fair enough. And there are no doubt lots of evolutionary biologists or other scientists who take issue with his work and again, that's fair enough - that's what science is all about.

But - I really think many of the people who claim Dawkins is arrogant/strident/humourless/unfeeling towards those of faith/ an attacker of the religious rather than religion etc. are basing that opinion not on what he has said or done, but misrepresentations and misunderstandings of what he has said or done.


A few quick examples -

*It has been widely reported and, judging by the comments sections of newspapers and blogs widely accepted, that Dawkins said raising a child to believe in a religion is child abuse. Except he did not say that - what he actually suggested was that teaching a child to believe in Hell and that they might go there if they don't behave was a form of child abuse.

*Dawkins has faced much criticism in the past and continues to do so for suggesting that we are fundamentally selfish - based on the notion that organisms are selfish - except that's not what he said. The selfish gene is about gene continuation, not selfishness of the organism.

More recently, and the ones that inspired this rant:

Headline of a comment piece in the Guardian

There's no such thing as an atheist baby
Richard Dawkins' implication that babies have a default theological position of atheism is as silly as assuming a default language or nationality

What he actually said was '"When you say X is the fastest growing religion, all you mean is that X people have babies at the fastest rate. But babies have no religion."


And this from the Telegraph:

Richard Dawkins says parents should not read fairy stories to their children as he claims they are harmful to their education by instilling a false belief in the supernatural

Did he say that? No. No he did not. In fact, he said the opposite. The article takes a series of quotes out of context and has Dawkins reaching the opposite conclusion to the one he actually drew.

What actually happened? During a discussion at a festival, he wondered if fairytales and fantasy inculcated a belief in the supernatural and were therefore potentially damaging - and concluded that on balance he thinks they are a useful tool for developing children's imaginations and critical faculties.

His comment after the article was interesting:

Dawkins admitted that he had once questioned whether a "diet of supernatural magic spells might possibly have a detrimental effect on a child's critical thinking."

But he added: "I genuinely don't know the answer to that, and what I repeated at Cheltenham is that I think it is a very interesting question. I actually think there might be a positive benefit in fairy tales for a child's critical thinking ... Do frogs turn into princes? No they don't. But an ordinary fiction story could well be true ... So a child can learn from fairy stories how to judge plausibility."

He is also criticised by people who consider his position that there is no God, to be as much an article of faith as any who believe in God - except, he doesn't say that there is definitely no God. What he actually suggests is that there is almost certainly no God - that all the evidence he has seen points to there not being a God, none of the evidence he has seen points to there being a God, and on balance he considers that there is almost certainly no God.

There are too many examples to go on. And I've ranted enough already. But just to wrap up: if what people know of Dawkins is how he is reported, then it really is no wonder that people think he is arrogant, humourless and strident. A man who arrogantly asserts that he can know the truth of no God, who thinks all babies are atheists, and that anybody who teaches their children about Jesus is abusing them, and fairystories should be banned.

So - here's a really nice interview with Dawkins, from last year. The interviewer is Robin Ince, who is one of my favourite rationalist comedians

[Nirvana]

At least now I know who Richard Dawkins is

[Griff]

It is interesting that the most offended people would be completely comfortable standing on your porch telling you what to believe.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh poor Dana, always out of step with the cool kids, the in crowd.






Good for you.

[DanaC]

Just realised I wrote 'humourless conversationalist' when i meant humourless controversialist :p

[Sundae]

I came to Professor Richard Dawkins via Derren Brown.
Together they gave my latent atheism a framework around which to coalesce.
It's good to have outspoken atheists because it's an under-represented POV, whatever the Hate Mail likes to pretend.

Richard Bacon interviewed Richard Dawkins about the fairytale quote recently.
It might even have been his interview which was picked up and mis-quoted.

This is not it, but it is an interesting listen.
Still shots only - radio interview.

I disagreed with a customer at work today (bad customer service, naughty naughty) who said he switched the radio off when Richard Bacon came on. He's not my favourite presenter, but he does often have people on his show that interest and intrigue me.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by DanaC

... I really like Richard Dawkins. Not just because I think he is right about a lot of stuff, but because he seems a lovely, thoughtful, sincere advocate for science and rationalism and a very, very clever man. ...

Well God bless him for making you happy.

[Griff]

[lumberjim]

I could swear that I posted in this thread. Did anyone see me say, "he was great on the family feud" in some other thread and think I was drunk posting?

[DanaC]

?

[Griff]

Game show host and Hogan's Heros alumnus who shares a name.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Griff

Game show host and Hogan's Heros alumnus who shares a name.

Explains my confusion.

[Undertoad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawson

[Happy Monkey]

Richard Dawkins' implication that babies have a default theological position of atheism is as silly as assuming a default language or nationality

What an amazingly dumb quote. A baby's default language is "none". "No religion" is atheism.

And (most) babies do have default nationality (depending on the laws of particular nations), since that is an external legal status conferred by the nation, not something they learn. Perhaps they meant "culture" or "national identity", or something like that?

[DanaC]

Well, the thing is, he didn't even say that babies are atheist. Presumably because, as someone who is quite careful with language he knows that for a lot of people the meaning of atheism is less an absence of belief and more an active disbelief. What he actually said was that babies have no religion. The author of that column took his tweet that babies have no religion, suggested that this was implying that babies have a default theological position of atheism and then argued against that 'implied' meaning, rather than the actual thing that Dawkins said.