Linux without losing Windows: dual-boot system

Undertoad · 07-25-2007, 07:32 PM

Having beautifully converted to Linux on the desktop at work, I've finally got my home system set up in a way where I can use Linux, but return to Windows for Battlefield 2, and Quicken, and other such "legacy applications".

I bought a new hard drive - a 320 GB Seagate, actually (but the $40 80 GB would do as well). I installed it, connected it up.

I downloaded the latest Fedora 7 i386 in DVD format from RedHat as an .iso image and burned that to a DVD.

I then installed it by booting the DVD - and told it to install itself to this new drive.

I followed the article here for some of the notions of how to get it done. The article is pretty techie-oriented. The whole process is detailed in many other places on the net. Googling for "dual-boot linux" gets a lot of good results, interesting information, and ideas. I'd say that this procedure is not for the average PC user -- if you quake at the idea of setting your BIOS to boot a different disk, never mind.

The whole point of this is to run Linux without endangering Windows at all. Windows sits untouched on the first, original drive.

I now get a menu (GRUB) when my system boots, and that menu basically asks me whether I want to start up the latest Fedora, or "Other". Selecting "Other", the system boots into the original Windows installation. I could easily change that menu, to have it ask me for Fedora or Windows, but for now, selecting "Other" to boot Windows is simply too delicious to change.

Problems: there have been a few. Mostly because all this stuff is cutting edge. Upgrading the kernel automatically, broke the nvidia drivers. Trying to run KDE with Beryl, crashed. But the nice thing about the dual-boot setup is that if I run into problems with the cutting-edge Fedora, I can return to Windows, open a browser, and 9 times out of 10, locate a solution by googling for the problem.

Of note: I can mount the Windows drives in Linux and get to all my old files.

What kills me: the wild amount of totally free software that I can download and install. Oh look, here's a free font browser. Oh look, seven different media players to pick from. OpenOffice, 100% free and 98% compatible.

I advise all techie sorts to try this. It's just too cool. If your BIOS supports it, you could probably even boot to an external disk to try it. Non-techie sorts can try it, but only if they have a techie on call.

And anyone with an "old" PC can experiment at will.

Uisge Beatha · 07-25-2007, 08:04 PM

I just recently looked into Ubuntu and gave it a quick try from Live CD. Since I have an old PC with a couple of spare HD's around, I figured I'd install Linux on one of them. I guess I've got to get back to that.....

UT, I don't remember any names, but I did see some Linux-friendly substitutes for Quicken (in case you're at all interested). One that I looked at briefly was supposed to be file format compatible. I'll have to remember to check which one that was, once I get things up and running.

I really love the idea of a legal system running free sofware, and there truly is a wonderful amount from which to choose. I already use some applications that are available in Linux versions (notably Firefox and VLC). I plan to keep a Windows drive around (basically for a couple of games), but look forward to exploring the world Linus gave us.

Sperlock · 07-25-2007, 10:41 PM

Substitutes for Quicken:
GnuCash - http://www.gnucash.org/
Gnofin - http://gnofin.sourceforge.net/
KMyMoney - http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/index-home.html
Grisbi - http://www.grisbi.org/

tw · 07-26-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The whole point of this is to run Linux without endangering Windows at all. Windows sits untouched on the first, original drive.

I am confused by Nvidia drivers would not work. As I understand it, you have modified the boot procedure (boot sector, NTLDR, Boot.ini etc) so that Windows boots from an active partition on the first drive or Linux boots (using the 512 byte file Linux.lnx) from the second drive. If correct, then Nvidia drivers should be intact and the Windows kernel unmodified.

Must you reboot to use each OS or does this boot one OS from the other?

Linux currently requires 256Mb memory minimum. Is any version still available for a 64Mb machine?

Undertoad · 07-26-2007, 06:03 PM

In my setup, it's just the boot sector that changed; it sets up the boot menu. It truly boots each one separately.

The nvidia drivers continue to work in Windows. When I first installed Fedora, I went to nvidia and got their Linux drivers. Everything was fine, until I upgraded the Linux kernel to this week's version, which did not play well with the nvidia drivers. Boot the earlier version and the drivers are fine.

Any Linux can run well in 64 MB, but when you add the graphical front end, that's where it requires a lot of memory. There are window managers that don't use much memory, but most people want to run Gnome or KDE, and thus the memory requirement.

Happy Monkey · 07-26-2007, 06:36 PM

I'm guessing nvidia doesn't provide source for the drivers, so you have to wait until they recompile for new kernels if something breaks. (As opposed to waiting for a random OSS programmer to fix it if it needs anything more complicated than a recompile).

Undertoad · 07-26-2007, 07:17 PM

Precisely!

xoxoxoBruce · 07-26-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

snip~ Everything was fine, until I upgraded the Linux kernel to this week's version, which did not play well with the nvidia drivers. ~snip

This weeks version? Weeks?runs screaming from the thread

Uisge Beatha · 07-26-2007, 07:40 PM

That can be a good thing, Bruce. The Linux community constantly works to improve the OS and many talented people share their work. I think it beats waiting for Patch Tuesday each month and hoping Microsoft puts in something useful.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-26-2007, 08:21 PM

Unlike everyone else in the world, I don't have a problem with Windows. It does everything I want it to do. Maybe because nobody is interested in me and mine, but whatever, I've got no complaints.

Telefunken · 07-27-2007, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Linux currently requires 256Mb memory minimum. Is any version still available for a 64Mb machine?

Yes there is, it's called Xubuntu.

Undertoad · 07-27-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Unlike everyone else in the world, I don't have a problem with Windows. It does everything I want it to do. Maybe because nobody is interested in me and mine, but whatever, I've got no complaints.

People should certainly run whatever works for them.

There are Linuxes that are more "conservative" about upgrades and are more stability-oriented.

People should know that if they don't want to spend $159 for Vista Home Premium upgrade, and $239 for the Office 2007 upgrade, there's this thing they can run which is just as good for what they want to do, for free.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-28-2007, 12:24 PM

That makes sense.
I downloaded IE-7 for free, to upgrade XP, rather than Vista. And my msWord does the job so no upgrade there.

I can see, if I buy a new PC, asking Dell how much without Windows and using freeware. Don't know if it would be much cheaper, although I know they want $79 more for msWorks with msWord.

Probably, for those that actually build their PCs, it would be a substantial savings... if you understand the ins and outs of Bios and that stuff.

Undertoad · 07-28-2007, 12:38 PM

Right now, Dell is selling Ubuntu PCs here.

They have 4 models with Ubuntu. This is one more than the number offered with XP, in the Home and Home Office category.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-28-2007, 03:20 PM

Glad to see they are offering one "hot" one (XPS 410 N) with freeware.

I also have a Dell PC, that's about 4 or 5 years old, with Windows ME, which really sucks. I could clean that out and install freeware... if I knew how.

07-25-2007, 07:32 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Linux without losing Windows: dual-boot system Having beautifully converted to Linux on the desktop at work, I've finally got my home system set up in a way where I can use Linux, but return to Windows for Battlefield 2, and Quicken, and other such "legacy applications". I bought a new hard drive - a 320 GB Seagate, actually (but the $40 80 GB would do as well). I installed it, connected it up. I downloaded the latest Fedora 7 i386 in DVD format from RedHat as an .iso image and burned that to a DVD. I then installed it by booting the DVD - and told it to install itself to this new drive. I followed the article here for some of the notions of how to get it done. The article is pretty techie-oriented. The whole process is detailed in many other places on the net. Googling for "dual-boot linux" gets a lot of good results, interesting information, and ideas. I'd say that this procedure is not for the average PC user -- if you quake at the idea of setting your BIOS to boot a different disk, never mind. The whole point of this is to run Linux without endangering Windows at all. Windows sits untouched on the first, original drive. I now get a menu (GRUB) when my system boots, and that menu basically asks me whether I want to start up the latest Fedora, or "Other". Selecting "Other", the system boots into the original Windows installation. I could easily change that menu, to have it ask me for Fedora or Windows, but for now, selecting "Other" to boot Windows is simply too delicious to change. Problems: there have been a few. Mostly because all this stuff is cutting edge. Upgrading the kernel automatically, broke the nvidia drivers. Trying to run KDE with Beryl, crashed. But the nice thing about the dual-boot setup is that if I run into problems with the cutting-edge Fedora, I can return to Windows, open a browser, and 9 times out of 10, locate a solution by googling for the problem. Of note: I can mount the Windows drives in Linux and get to all my old files. What kills me: the wild amount of totally free software that I can download and install. Oh look, here's a free font browser. Oh look, seven different media players to pick from. OpenOffice, 100% free and 98% compatible. I advise all techie sorts to try this. It's just too cool. If your BIOS supports it, you could probably even boot to an external disk to try it. Non-techie sorts can try it, but only if they have a techie on call. And anyone with an "old" PC can experiment at will.

07-25-2007, 10:41 PM	#3
Sperlock Elite Elitist Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 322	Substitutes for Quicken: GnuCash - http://www.gnucash.org/ Gnofin - http://gnofin.sourceforge.net/ KMyMoney - http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/index-home.html Grisbi - http://www.grisbi.org/ __________________ Every oak tree started out as a couple of nuts who stood their ground. - Anonymous http://informationthreshold.blogspot.com, http://spiritualthreshold.blogspot.com

07-26-2007, 06:36 PM	#6
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I'm guessing nvidia doesn't provide source for the drivers, so you have to wait until they recompile for new kernels if something breaks. (As opposed to waiting for a random OSS programmer to fix it if it needs anything more complicated than a recompile). __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

07-26-2007, 08:21 PM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Unlike everyone else in the world, I don't have a problem with Windows. It does everything I want it to do. Maybe because nobody is interested in me and mine, but whatever, I've got no complaints. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-28-2007, 12:24 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	That makes sense. I downloaded IE-7 for free, to upgrade XP, rather than Vista. And my msWord does the job so no upgrade there. I can see, if I buy a new PC, asking Dell how much without Windows and using freeware. Don't know if it would be much cheaper, although I know they want $79 more for msWorks with msWord. Probably, for those that actually build their PCs, it would be a substantial savings... if you understand the ins and outs of Bios and that stuff. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-25-2007, 08:04 PM	#2
Uisge Beatha Lecturer Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 945	I just recently looked into Ubuntu and gave it a quick try from Live CD. Since I have an old PC with a couple of spare HD's around, I figured I'd install Linux on one of them. I guess I've got to get back to that..... UT, I don't remember any names, but I did see some Linux-friendly substitutes for Quicken (in case you're at all interested). One that I looked at briefly was supposed to be file format compatible. I'll have to remember to check which one that was, once I get things up and running. I really love the idea of a legal system running free sofware, and there truly is a wonderful amount from which to choose. I already use some applications that are available in Linux versions (notably Firefox and VLC). I plan to keep a Windows drive around (basically for a couple of games), but look forward to exploring the world Linus gave us.

07-26-2007, 06:03 PM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	In my setup, it's just the boot sector that changed; it sets up the boot menu. It truly boots each one separately. The nvidia drivers continue to work in Windows. When I first installed Fedora, I went to nvidia and got their Linux drivers. Everything was fine, until I upgraded the Linux kernel to this week's version, which did not play well with the nvidia drivers. Boot the earlier version and the drivers are fine. Any Linux can run well in 64 MB, but when you add the graphical front end, that's where it requires a lot of memory. There are window managers that don't use much memory, but most people want to run Gnome or KDE, and thus the memory requirement.

07-26-2007, 07:17 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Precisely!

07-26-2007, 07:40 PM	#9
Uisge Beatha Lecturer Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 945	That can be a good thing, Bruce. The Linux community constantly works to improve the OS and many talented people share their work. I think it beats waiting for Patch Tuesday each month and hoping Microsoft puts in something useful.

07-28-2007, 12:38 PM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Right now, Dell is selling Ubuntu PCs here. They have 4 models with Ubuntu. This is one more than the number offered with XP, in the Home and Home Office category.

07-28-2007, 03:20 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Glad to see they are offering one "hot" one (XPS 410 N) with freeware. I also have a Dell PC, that's about 4 or 5 years old, with Windows ME, which really sucks. I could clean that out and install freeware... if I knew how. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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