Horrifying gang rape & assault on mother & son - Page 10

yesman065 · 07-19-2007, 03:55 PM

What about the people sentenced to life - those that have no chance of ever getting out - are they clogging the sytem too? Are they a drain on society? Are they the ones we should deal with to make room for those who should do time and may be deterred from repeating the same offenses against society? Are there enough of them to make a difference?

Happy Monkey · 07-19-2007, 05:00 PM

They're the ones we should be making room for.

smurfalicious · 07-20-2007, 08:14 AM

Again, prison is not reformatory. Petit crimes punished with long sentences produce better criminals. I don't see the need to put the 18-year-old with a quarter of the icky sticky and a pipe in jail no matter how many times he gets caught.

People sentenced to life would be a drain on society when they are free to roam the streets and continue to carry out their acts of violence. I will gladly fork over my tax dollars to keep those sociopaths out of my life.

Another issue I wanted to address with this thread (but no one's really perked up about it thus far), is what you all think about the neighbors who HAD to have heard the attack, failed to call authorities before OR after the attack, and even though the victims laid on their bathroom floor for several hours before walking to the hospital, did not come over and offer any kind of assistance, like, say, oh, I don't know, a fucking ride to the hospital.

Other than perhaps a moral responsibility to your fellow human, what responsibility to you feel, if any, these people should have towards their neighbors?

Hime · 07-20-2007, 12:47 PM

I don't really see why a child stealing should be thought of as acting as a child, while a child doing something like this should be thought of as acting as an adult. While someone who takes something so they don't have to pay for it is acting on a rational, selfish impulse, someone who engages in this kind of behavior is showing a profound lack of empathy, or inability to distinguish reality from fantasy, or simply inability to think for himself and disobey whatever "leader" he is following. We like to think of "the children" as sweet and innocent, but the qualities I listed above are all distinctly childish ones.

The more I think about it, the more strongly I believe that this is a case of two or three mentally ill, disturbed "ringleaders" and seven or eight younger kids with no real role models or authority figures who got attached to this gang as a way of coping with life in a very dangerous neighborhood. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the kids who've been arrested so far are the followers, and the leaders are actually 18 or older -- the better to manipulate kids into doing something like this.

yesman065 · 07-20-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

They're the ones we should be making room for.

I reread my post and don't know if what I meant came through. I was questioning if we should remove the terminal criminals from the system making room in the prisons. Thus creating a situation where the prisons aren't overcrowded with scum that are never getting out. These people only create an environment that perpetuates crime - they, for all intents and purposes, run these places. Without them would our systems be better suited to rehabilitation, education and/or retraining - whatever positives we can.

Just thinkin and wonderin.

glatt · 07-20-2007, 01:40 PM

I think there is a lot of room for improving the system.

I would like to see violent criminals and lifers housed in different facilities from all other criminals.

I'd like to see the guards put an end to the widespread rape and other assaults that occur in prisons. They currently look the other way, and nobody cares. This makes prisoners full of hate and violence when they get out and rejoin the rest of us in society.

I'd like to see some sort of program that would identify prisoners who can be rehabilitated, and work hard on rehabilitating them. It should be the top priority of the system for this group.

I'd like violent prisoners to be held in prison until they can pass some sort of evaluation that shows they are not a risk to society, even if that means holding on to them for longer than their sentences. The number one reason for prison is to protect society.

At the same time, I'd like people who are not a danger to society to be put in some sort of minimum security rehabilitation program, and I'd like their sentences to be short.

I'd like mentally ill prisoners to be put in high security mental hospitals and held there until the doctors think they are not a danger.

And finally, if you are going to differentiate between kids and adults, you should always differentiate between them, regardless of the crime. The law should be applied equally and consistently to all.

Hime · 07-20-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I think there is a lot of room for improving the system.

I would like to see violent criminals and lifers housed in different facilities from all other criminals.

I'd like to see the guards put an end to the widespread rape and other assaults that occur in prisons. They currently look the other way, and nobody cares. This makes prisoners full of hate and violence when they get out and rejoin the rest of us in society.

I'd like to see some sort of program that would identify prisoners who can be rehabilitated, and work hard on rehabilitating them. It should be the top priority of the system for this group.

I'd like violent prisoners to be held in prison until they can pass some sort of evaluation that shows they are not a risk to society, even if that means holding on to them for longer than their sentences. The number one reason for prison is to protect society.

At the same time, I'd like people who are not a danger to society to be put in some sort of minimum security rehabilitation program, and I'd like their sentences to be short.

I'd like mentally ill prisoners to be put in high security mental hospitals and held there until the doctors think they are not a danger.

And finally, if you are going to differentiate between kids and adults, you should always differentiate between them, regardless of the crime. The law should be applied equally and consistently to all.

I agree with almost all of this. One of the things that most disgusts me about my country is the majority's total apathy towards the living conditions of prisoners. Prison rape is not funny, people.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-20-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I'd like to see some sort of program that would identify prisoners who can be rehabilitated, and work hard on rehabilitating them. It should be the top priority of the system for this group.

Lovely idea, but look at everything else the government does.... the people put in charge.... political pressures.
Flexibility spawns abuses that spawn inflexible rules.
Shit like that promotes systems that are worse than the problems they are trying to solve.
Pardon my cynicism.

glatt · 07-20-2007, 04:23 PM

I'm thinking of something more along the lines of our public school system, but with high security. I have no idea how to identify those who can be rehabilitated. It's not my area of expertise.

DanaC · 07-20-2007, 12:50 PM

That has a horribly ring of truth to it Hime.

yesman065 · 07-20-2007, 01:54 PM

I agree too. Well said! But I must say that somehow, not specifically in this instance, that the punishment should fit the crime.

glatt · 07-20-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

the punishment should fit the crime.

I'd agree with this too, but I'd wager that everyone has their own idea of what a fitting punishment is. Just read through this thread.

Shawnee123 · 07-20-2007, 01:58 PM

I agree too.

It's just hard for me to come to terms with those atrocities coming out of the minds of such young people, and I have a hard time differentiating between someone who could do such things at 15, or at 18, or at 35.

Our criminal system is horrible; I know I have no solutions. So many people who get out want to get back in, it's the only life they know.

smurfalicious · 07-20-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Our criminal system is horrible; I know I have no solutions.

Maybe the Philippinos have it right????

freshnesschronic · 07-21-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfalicious

Maybe the Philippinos have it right????

Cause Filipinos just want to dance!

07-19-2007, 05:00 PM	#2
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	They're the ones we should be making room for. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

07-20-2007, 08:14 AM	#3
smurfalicious Tool. Not the band - you are one. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 501 Northlake Blvd., North Palm Beach FL Posts: 329	Again, prison is not reformatory. Petit crimes punished with long sentences produce better criminals. I don't see the need to put the 18-year-old with a quarter of the icky sticky and a pipe in jail no matter how many times he gets caught. People sentenced to life would be a drain on society when they are free to roam the streets and continue to carry out their acts of violence. I will gladly fork over my tax dollars to keep those sociopaths out of my life. Another issue I wanted to address with this thread (but no one's really perked up about it thus far), is what you all think about the neighbors who HAD to have heard the attack, failed to call authorities before OR after the attack, and even though the victims laid on their bathroom floor for several hours before walking to the hospital, did not come over and offer any kind of assistance, like, say, oh, I don't know, a fucking ride to the hospital. Other than perhaps a moral responsibility to your fellow human, what responsibility to you feel, if any, these people should have towards their neighbors? __________________

07-20-2007, 01:54 PM	#11
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	I agree too. Well said! But I must say that somehow, not specifically in this instance, that the punishment should fit the crime. Last edited by yesman065; 07-20-2007 at 03:01 PM.

07-20-2007, 01:58 PM	#13
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I agree too. It's just hard for me to come to terms with those atrocities coming out of the minds of such young people, and I have a hard time differentiating between someone who could do such things at 15, or at 18, or at 35. Our criminal system is horrible; I know I have no solutions. So many people who get out want to get back in, it's the only life they know. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

07-19-2007, 03:55 PM	#1
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	What about the people sentenced to life - those that have no chance of ever getting out - are they clogging the sytem too? Are they a drain on society? Are they the ones we should deal with to make room for those who should do time and may be deterred from repeating the same offenses against society? Are there enough of them to make a difference?

07-20-2007, 12:47 PM	#4
Hime Extraordinary Machine Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Outside of Washington, DC Posts: 307	I don't really see why a child stealing should be thought of as acting as a child, while a child doing something like this should be thought of as acting as an adult. While someone who takes something so they don't have to pay for it is acting on a rational, selfish impulse, someone who engages in this kind of behavior is showing a profound lack of empathy, or inability to distinguish reality from fantasy, or simply inability to think for himself and disobey whatever "leader" he is following. We like to think of "the children" as sweet and innocent, but the qualities I listed above are all distinctly childish ones. The more I think about it, the more strongly I believe that this is a case of two or three mentally ill, disturbed "ringleaders" and seven or eight younger kids with no real role models or authority figures who got attached to this gang as a way of coping with life in a very dangerous neighborhood. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the kids who've been arrested so far are the followers, and the leaders are actually 18 or older -- the better to manipulate kids into doing something like this.

07-20-2007, 01:40 PM	#6
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I think there is a lot of room for improving the system. I would like to see violent criminals and lifers housed in different facilities from all other criminals. I'd like to see the guards put an end to the widespread rape and other assaults that occur in prisons. They currently look the other way, and nobody cares. This makes prisoners full of hate and violence when they get out and rejoin the rest of us in society. I'd like to see some sort of program that would identify prisoners who can be rehabilitated, and work hard on rehabilitating them. It should be the top priority of the system for this group. I'd like violent prisoners to be held in prison until they can pass some sort of evaluation that shows they are not a risk to society, even if that means holding on to them for longer than their sentences. The number one reason for prison is to protect society. At the same time, I'd like people who are not a danger to society to be put in some sort of minimum security rehabilitation program, and I'd like their sentences to be short. I'd like mentally ill prisoners to be put in high security mental hospitals and held there until the doctors think they are not a danger. And finally, if you are going to differentiate between kids and adults, you should always differentiate between them, regardless of the crime. The law should be applied equally and consistently to all.

07-20-2007, 04:23 PM	#9
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm thinking of something more along the lines of our public school system, but with high security. I have no idea how to identify those who can be rehabilitated. It's not my area of expertise.

07-20-2007, 12:50 PM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	That has a horribly ring of truth to it Hime.

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