So I got a letter in the mail.....

[bigw00dy]

On Friday(May 11th) I got a letter in the mail from a collection agency. to rewind a little... I got some wisdom teeth pulled in September of 2000. I was still under my mother's health insurance(i was 19 or so & still attending college) and at the time, we paid what ever money was owed on our part. Fast foward to last Friday. I got this letter from APEX collection agengy saying I owed $652.03 from sept. of 2000.

This is the first and only notice I have ever recieved about any money owed. I don't even know where to start to get to the bottom of this. My mother doesn't even have the same health insurance as then.

Does anybody know how I could start to get to the bottom of this? The 1st thing that comes to my mind is Statue of Limitations.

On a side note, I attempted to call the collection agency and got NO help from them. The lady basically told me to MAN up and pay what I owe

Thanks in advance
jeff

[SteveDallas]

The collection agency will be no help. They get a cut of whatever they collect.

I want to say seven years is the limit, but I could be wrong.

I would start with the doctor's office. You'll probably need to talk to the old insurance company as well. I'd be tempted to tell them to go take a hike, but I admit I don't know what the possible repercussions could be. If they can't be bothered to send you a single statement in six years, they don't deserve to be paid.

[glatt]

I ran into a very similar problem over the birth of our daughter. We paid every bill sent to us when she was born, and a year or two after she was born, the hospital closed. 6 years after she was born, we got a similar letter from a collection agency. They wanted a couple grand. First we heard of it. I researched the rights of debtors. We have lots of rights.

First of all, they must stop contacting you if you tell them to go away. The only party with a right to contact you is the owner of the alleged debt. You can tell collection agencies who don't own the debt to leave you alone.

Secondly, if I remember correctly, the statute of limitations starts over again if you make any payment on the debt at all. Don't pay them a penny now unless you plan to pay off the debt entirely.

Remember that the statute of limitations applies to their ability to take you to court. Was the work performed in a different location than your residence? If so, you need to check the statute of limitations in both places.

Also remember that you may win a victory in court, but there still may be a single blemish over this in your credit report. Do you care about your credit report? How much do you care? If they report this to the credit agencies, you can submit a letter to explain the blemish, but it takes years for that crap to come off your record.

In my situation, we sent them a registered letter saying "Oh yeah? Prove we owe you a couple grand." We never heard from them again, and they didn't do anything to screw with our credit rating. I think the hospital had closed because of mismanagement, and they had no idea if we actually owed them the money. I think the hospital sold all these "debts" to a collection agency for pennies on the dollar, and the agency just sent the letter out to us and thousands like us to see what they might be able to get back in return. Little more than extortion.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, because there could be a risk to your credit rating, but it seems like they have a very weak case and would never win this one in court. It's been 7 years!

[Beestie]

Get a copy of your credit report. See if the item is listed. If not, they don't have your SS#. And you certainly won't be sharing with them.

But you should also know that the dentist sold the receivable to this agency - since its been so long, I think its been sold, re-sold and sold again. To be clear, the dentist is NOT who you are paying when you pay the agency - he sold the right to collect the money to a company who specializes in collecting overdue payments so he's out of the picture.

And to me, there is an interesting legal question here. If you owe the dentist and the dentist sells the "IOU" does that trigger an obligation for you to pay the agency instead of the dentist? I actually think not because you would have to consent to it. And I'm guessing you didn't.

Just for fun, call the dentist and tell them that you would like to take care of this bill and tell them when it was. I bet they have no record of it.

[bigw00dy]

1st...Thanks for the Fast replies!!

The dental worked was done at a dentist office that is still in business as of Friday. I made a call to the dental office on Friday and left my name & number with the receptionist. If they ever get back to me is a different story.

As far as paying them, I don't plan on making a single payment until I have all my ducks in order. Even then, I can't forsee paying anything. We used this dentist because it was the only one that covered all my work through insurance.

I do care about my credit. I own my own house already so I am not planning on any BIG purchases. But at the same time, I don't want the collection agency f*ing me. This is the first time I have ever had to deal with the bullsh*t.

[Beestie]

And another thing. Do this now. Write a letter to the agency contesting the charge. Say explicitly in the letter that you wish to preserve any rights you may have in the matter.

If you do nothing, a legal presumption may be made depending on the circumstances that the debt is valid. If you contest, you may succeed in shifting the burden of proof over to them.

You need to contest it immediately. Then decide what you want to do. Ignoring it is the worst thing you can do.

[Sheldonrs]

Originally Posted by bigw00dy

1st...Thanks for the Fast replies!!

The dental worked was done at a dentist office that is still in business as of Friday. I made a call to the dental office on Friday and left my name & number with the receptionist. If they ever get back to me is a different story.

As far as paying them, I don't plan on making a single payment until I have all my ducks in order. Even then, I can't forsee paying anything. We used this dentist because it was the only one that covered all my work through insurance.

I do care about my credit. I own my own house already so I am not planning on any BIG purchases. But at the same time, I don't want the collection agency f*ing me. This is the first time I have ever had to deal with the bullsh*t.

Under NO circumstances should you tell the dentist or the debt. collectors that you want to pay the debt. off in order to get info. That is basically saying that you agree that you owe it and most collectors record their calls and they would use that to prove that you Do owe the money.
If you can get copies of the payments from the old insurance company, do that and then fax them to the collectors along with a note stating that this proof should end any further contact from them and if they do not desist, you will file harrassment charges against them.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Beestie

--snip--
And to me, there is an interesting legal question here. If you owe the dentist and the dentist sells the "IOU" does that trigger an obligation for you to pay the agency instead of the dentist? I actually think not because you would have to consent to it. And I'm guessing you didn't.
--snip

Hmm. Reread this passage and substitute "mortgage company" for "dentist". Tell me if you get the same conclusion.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by bigw00dy

1st...Thanks for the Fast replies!!

The dental worked was done at a dentist office that is still in business as of Friday. I made a call to the dental office on Friday and left my name & number with the receptionist. If they ever get back to me is a different story.

As far as paying them, I don't plan on making a single payment until I have all my ducks in order. Even then, I can't forsee paying anything. We used this dentist because it was the only one that covered all my work through insurance.

I do care about my credit. I own my own house already so I am not planning on any BIG purchases. But at the same time, I don't want the collection agency f*ing me. This is the first time I have ever had to deal with the bullsh*t.

Bad idea.

Caring about your credit is like caring about your cholesterol or your blood pressure or osteoporosis or something like that. Really, who cares? Nobody, and it's a hassle to figure it out and it's invisible and frankly it's not a problem. Right now. But some day (you knew there was a lecture in here somewhere, didn't you. you were right.), some day you will care. And you might care a LOT. And at that moment, you'd give your all for a different number on the page in front of you and the doctor/loan officer/paramedic.

The moral of the story is that these kinds of things are easier earlier and harder later. Please, please note I'm not saying yes or no about the debt in this case. I don't know enough to lecture or advise you about that. But I do know that your credit report has a large influence on your financial health and
an increasing influence on other surprisingly different aspects of your life. I've heard of prospective employers running credit reports with the same intention as drug screenings. They're trying to glean as much information as possible to make a decision. That's worthy of another thread by itself, but my point is that with respect to your credit report, it's you against the world.

Only you care to clean it up and raise it up. Everybody else who has any input on it *at best* can make a neutral/favorable entry that, yes, you paid something off. Much more often, the entries made by others are negative. This was late, that was missed, etc, etc. And although you may not actually die from these thousand cuts, you will suffer.

Well, enough doom and gloom. You've mentioned you've paid for your house (good job!), so you probably know something about credit. But the credit report's influence extends beyond mortgage decisions. You really should care about it, since you're the only one who can care for it.

EDIT:


Whoops. I completely misread your line, which I emphasized, you know, for emphasis. I read "don't really care" when you *ahem* clearly said you "do really care". I feel like a doofus. But I still strongly believe in my point, enough that I'll let it stand with the egg of my misreading on my face in the hopes that it reaches its intended audience. Even though that's clearly not you. Sorry for the mistake.

[bigw00dy]

For a second there............then I read your edit. But you still make a valid point V! Before posting on here, I questioned some...friends....about this issue. They obviously let their credit take a back seat in most situations. That is what i am trying NOT to do. I am trying to resolve this issue with minumal(sp) or no damage to my credit.

With that said, I have my reasons for posting my question on here. I must say, I am getting some good feedback.

I am going to write the collection agency a letter basically asking for bills, insurance info(what was paid & what wasn't)..etc etc etc. As well as dispute the debt as invalid.

But what I do believe is that from the beginning, I did NOT owe the dentist any money for the work done. I simply believe it was an insurance mix-up.

[SteveDallas]

Originally Posted by BigV

I've heard of prospective employers running credit reports with the same intention as drug screenings. They're trying to glean as much information as possible to make a decision.

My employer does a credit check before hiring someone who will be routinely handling money. (But that's one of the last steps before offering the final candidate the job, not something that's used as an early screening tool.)

[barefoot serpent]

At least they don't have your phone # and aren't calling you every day... yet.

Someone where I work had an invoice with Dell Computers that got sent to a collection agency. Somehow they got my number and so I got these automated calls every day for about 2 months. Bastards!

[Undertoad]

I went for a job with a place that does credit checks. I really, really felt like explaining to them that if I GOT the job my credit would, like, really improve, because then I would be able to actually pay those people who are complaining that I can't pay them because I don't have a job.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by BigV

Hmm. Reread this passage and substitute "mortgage company" for "dentist". Tell me if you get the same conclusion.

The secondary mortgage market is not without its legal quagmires but this is not one of them. When you sign the docs, you are giving your consent for the mortgagee to transfer/assign/sell its interests to third parties and agree not to distinguish the new mortgagee from the old so that is all cut and dried.

The government helped set up the secondary mortgage market because it is where all the cash comes from to loan all this money that is being lent out.

However, the dentist/doctor/etc. receivables market enjoys no such sponsorship and is very inefficient as a result. Something like this happened to me once - it was a legit bill and I paid it - but I told the "collection agency" (quotes because they aren't really working for the person you originally owed the money to" and I told them that I was still obligated to pay the dentist and not them. We argued about it but I cut a check to the dentist and told the agency to get it from him.

What proof do I have, for example, that if I pay the agency that the doctor/dentist/etc. isn't going to come after me at a later date saying 'you paid the wrong person - they didn't have the right to collect that debt' or 'yes, I authorized the agency to collect on my behalf but they never gave me the money you gave to them minus their fee (skipped town, etc.) so you still owe me.'

I would never pay an agency without a release from the original party indicating that payment to the agency is considered payment in full by the person originally owed.

If the agency howls that you owe them and not Dr. Smith, tell them that you were not a party to the arrangement between them and Dr. Smith and, consequently, you still owe Dr. Smith and any payments you make will be made to Dr. Smith. Since you (Mr. Collection agent) already have an agreement with Dr. Smith and no agreement with me, it is he who owes you. Not me.

[Elspode]

We have a similar thing going on. An erroneous double billing (the original of which has been paid over a year ago) has found its way into what my wife's lawyer boss calls the "zombie" market. These are debts, real or imagined, purchased for pennies on the dollar, then given to bulldogs to harass you into paying. We have about fifteen phone calls a day, all from people who curse, threaten and otherwise badger. When we tell them we'll send them proof of payment and duplication error, they simply say that that is not their business, this is a debt, and we'd better pay it or else.

I'm told we're going to have to take them to court to get rid of it.