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   Undertoad  Sunday Sep 19 09:00 AM

9/19/2004: Three-year-old campaigner cries



I swore up and down that I'd try to avoid this as an IotD, because it's so bloody partisan, but then I realized that it's kinda non-partisan when you think about it.

Once wolf posted this item in the "Humor in the Campaigns" thread, I was ready to post this shot there but then I realized it's downright UNhumorous by any account, and not suitable for the thread.

What it is: the man in the center is a Bush supporter. Edwards was making a stop at his local airport so he packed some Bush signs into his bag and headed off to the event, with his kids in tow. (One kid eleven years old, the other, three.) When he got there the Kerry/Edwards supporter guy tore up their sign and the girl busted out in tears, and an AP photographer caught the whole thing.

The ensuing online flame war could have been predicted from miles away. This really says nothing about any candidate, any party, or any set of supporters. It's an isolated event. It doesn't mean much and both sides are trying to assign it too much meaning.

I'd rather not pay attention at all. But what interests me is the question of whether the man had any business carting his three-year-old into the hornet's nest. It's ok for him to do it, that's fine, I hope he does, that's part of how the whole thing works. But at age 3, it seems like the kid is a prop or, worse, a human shield. It's good if the kids get something out of it -- seeing political activity up close. But are they kinda in harm's way here?



Jacquelita  Sunday Sep 19 09:17 AM

IS this for real? Was there legit news coverage on it? When I originally saw this pic, I thought - photoshop

Who would take their kids into a "rally" with signs supporting the opposing team?

Who would tear up a 3-year-old's sign - regardless of what it said?



Jacquelita  Sunday Sep 19 09:38 AM

I just read this again and realized it was an AP photographer...

Is the Bush campaign playing this up at all? I still have a hard time believing this is real



wolf  Sunday Sep 19 09:39 AM

Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies.

Politics has become infected with the same mentality that rules football games, and makes it somehow acceptable (or if not acceptable, not uncommon) to beat the shit out of some guy wearing the opposing team's jersey in "your" stadium.

This should never have happened.



Happy Monkey  Sunday Sep 19 09:56 AM

It's very possible that it's not real. The guy has a history of doing this, and the "Kerry supporter" may be his son.



Happy Monkey  Sunday Sep 19 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf
Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies.
(A) They're not allowed in.
(B) When they do get in, they may easily get savaged.


Undertoad  Sunday Sep 19 10:06 AM

If you read the full page at Rising Hegemon it points to the Union's apology for their member's actions - it's not the guy's son. The guy is a serial event-buster and it's not interesting that he's been in the newspapers for it multiple times. You'd expect it. Think about it - the VP candidate shows up at the airport, the photographers are all there, and the boring as hell headline is "Edwards says a few words at airport". But a much better headline is "Political guy gets sign tooken away in minor fracas"...

The thing is, a really great headline is "Edwards Supporter is Mean to Little Girl".

And so if the guy was a serial event-buster and had his signs tooken before and knew it was likely, why did he take his three-year-old? On purpose? Into the hornet's nest?

Is that, like, family values or something?



Happy Monkey  Sunday Sep 19 10:40 AM

That's not quite what it said. The union issued a standard PR apology, and the guy said it was not his son. Nothing certain at this point.

But, staged or not, the guy was definately using his daughter as a prop.



richlevy  Sunday Sep 19 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
That's not quite what it said. The union issued a standard PR apology, and the guy said it was not his son. Nothing certain at this point.

But, staged or not, the guy was definately using his daughter as a prop.
Note to self. If I decide to pull the same prank at a Republican rally, buy son bulletproof vest before letting him hold up sign.


xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Sep 19 02:37 PM

Quote:
Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies.
Been working long hours?
Haven't seen much of the campaign?
Been pilfering the patient's meds? :p


chrisinhouston  Sunday Sep 19 03:36 PM

Mother arrested for interupting First Lady's speech

http://www.nbc10.com/politics/3735989/detail.html
and here:
http://www.opednews.com/wade_091904_dissent.htm



Karenv  Sunday Sep 19 07:03 PM

The guy who tore up the sign is iin fact the son of the man who staged the event. He is a serial provacateur who has staged these events at several rallys. I saw a family portrait of them. He certainly used his three year old as a prop. And look at the face of the "sign tearer"- he is the one in the grey shirt a few years ago.

Whereas it is impossible to attend a Bush rally without being arrested or kicked out if you are wearing a Kerry button. This woman was arrested for "hostile tresspass" for asking questions about the war that killed her son when Laura Bush was speaking. If you go to www.republicansforkerry.com you will see a story by someone who tried to attend a Bush rally on the day both candidates spoke in Ohio- even took off his Kerry shirt when asked. First they let him in, then they asked him to stand in a segregated area with a bodyguard, then they kicked him out after he had been standing quietly for a while, before Bush even showed up.



CharlieG  Monday Sep 20 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenv
...snip.... This woman was arrested for "hostile tresspass" .....
There is a GOOD explaination of the law over on Volokh.org - by a law professor - it seems in NJ (where the incident occurs) if you are asked to leave by an event organizer, and you DON'T, you ARE guilty "hostile tresspass" - it's the definition of the law. The fact that when the police tried to escort her out she starts screaming "Police brutality" isn't over reaction either, huh? Sort of like my Mother In Law screaming "Rape" to get the NYPD tow driver to let down her car - it's a standard tactic that I've seen taught in protest groups (I USED to be a liberal, still attend a VERY liberal church - the stories I could tell.... ) IMHO - and ONLY from MY experience on BOTH sides of the issue - Most of the "traditional" liberal groups that were started and/or run by the 1960s protestors teach disruption tactics, where the right wing groups SEEM to tell their members to NOT disrupt (Like I said, I've been to planning sessions for BOTH sides over the years)


Happy Monkey  Monday Sep 20 11:16 AM

Of course, it was legal to arrest her. But it was unneccesary. Why arrest, when kicking out will do? And the bigger issue is that anyone - whether disruptive or not - who does not support Bush is considered unwelcome. Therefore, the only voices of dissent that Bush ever sees are the ones who actively circumvent "security" (ie security people who are weeding out political views rather than security risks), who are the ones most likely to be disruptive. There are plenty of people who would be happy to stand in the back with a sign, without chanting or yelling, as there are at Kerry rallies, but that type of protest isn't allowed at Bush rallies.



CharlieG  Monday Sep 20 11:38 AM

Thing is, according to reports that I heard (again, see the link I mentioned) she was asked to leave (verbally) and basically told the folks NO, because she had a ticket. Under NJ law, even if you have a ticket, if you are asked to leave, you must. AFTER she refused to leave when asked is when the police moved in



Happy Monkey  Monday Sep 20 12:12 PM

That's why I said it was legal to arrest her.



CharlieG  Monday Sep 20 01:26 PM

BTW In further news - the Mercer Country Prosecutor refused (I feel rightly BTW) to press charges - ON FRIDAY (before it made the papers this weekend). Interesting, huh? As I said, I think the punishement fit the crime - she was asked to leave, she wouldn't, the police removed her. At that point, no harm, no foul



warch  Monday Sep 20 05:38 PM

I read some of the suggestions that the mean union sign ripper was perhaps the wronged family man, Phil's adult kid...Phil, Jr. (who participated last time in the media covered sign ripping at the Gore rally.) I cant tell nuthin from a digi picture. Just another similarly looking young white guy. Then someone noted that the hat the mean young guy is wearing is from Marshall U, incidently where Phil, Jr. currently goes to school...

Onward Christian soldiers.



mmmBoy  Tuesday Sep 21 05:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf
Kerry supporters are not, as far as I know, savaged during Bush rallies.
That's because there are no Kerry supporters at Bush Rallies. At Bush "rallies" you have to be vetted to get into the audience. Tickets are given out in advance to supporters and donors who subsequently lob softballs in the Q & A section for soundbites to appear on the local news. Bush rally organizers fire up the troops on the way into an event, telling them to "cheer real hard for the President."

Two things. You'll notice that most of the trespassers mentioned previously were not at Dubya's events. Hecklers can't get within miles of Dubya's staged rallies, and as previously mentioned they are weeded out before the events start. There was even a case in Texas when attendees of a New Mexico rally for Cheney were required to sign releases stating that they endorsed the BC 04 ticket. Wouldn't want to persuade any undecided voters...

Bush rallies typically take place in "friendly territory." This usually means a supporter's farm, a town hall rented out for the event, a small civic auditorium, etc. That's why they can charge them with tresspassing - it would be harder to do that at a rally in an open public place.


Undertoad  Tuesday Sep 21 06:23 PM

Quote:
I cant tell nuthin from a digi picture. Just another similarly looking young white guy.


Quote:
Then someone noted that the hat the mean young guy is wearing is from Marshall U, incidently where Phil, Jr. currently goes to school.

I still can't tell nuthin.


lookout123  Tuesday Sep 21 06:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmBoy
There was even a case in Texas when attendees of a New Mexico rally for Cheney
did texans get all greedy and annex new mexico???


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Sep 21 06:35 PM

There was another picture on Fark where the logo on the hat was more visible.



mmmBoy  Tuesday Sep 21 06:35 PM

Yeah, when those Democratic State Senators from Texas hid in New Mexico to protest the gerrymandering a few years back, TX annexed NM just in case.

I should probably learn to proofread these before I hit Post Quick Reply, eh?



lookout123  Tuesday Sep 21 07:17 PM

just kidding mmmboy - if i hadn't done it, someone else would have. i heard a nasty rumor that there is a smartass in the cellar. i haven't run into him yet, but i have my eyes open.



mmmBoy  Tuesday Sep 21 07:31 PM

No worries lookout. I'll look out for the smartass too, but I'll stay away from mirrors.



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