I'm angry this morning

glatt · 10-28-2008, 08:47 AM

I read in the paper this mornig that DC area public transportation cops are going to start randomly searching bags of law abiding citizens before allowing them to board buses and trains. No probable cause that a crime has been committed by that person is needed, and neither is a search warrant. The cops will just randomly pick you and search you. For no reason at all.

I was annoyed by the increases in airport "security," and grumbled about it, but I only fly once every few years, so that didn't impact me much. Going into a sporting event or concert, there is also security, but that's like entering private property and is rare for me, so I was OK with that too.

But this news really pisses me off. This is searching people for no reason as they go about their normal daily business. And then barring them from travel if they don't consent to a search.

I survived the September 11th attacks, along with 99.99999% of the rest of America. I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists attacks than the police state we are in today. I know what I'm asking for here, I saw 9/11 with my own eyes in my own town.

I'll refuse to consent to any search, and according to the article, I will be turned away from transportation that day. They will stop me from going about my normal daily business.

SamIam · 10-28-2008, 09:03 AM

That would make me angry too, Glatt. It often seems to me that we have more to worry about from the terrorists within than the terrorists without. Bin Laden must be feeling pretty smug today as he watches the US gradually implode from within. 9/11 was successful beyond his wildest dreams.

DanaC · 10-28-2008, 09:05 AM

That's outrageous. Our police have extensive stop and search powers, which may or may not be misused (depends which part of town you live in, and what your ethnic origin is, I suspect).

I sort of expect better of America on that sort of thing. I don't know why, I am no starry eyed idealist. I think it's probably a hang-up from the America I saw as a kid growing up. What America stood for on cinema and television screens. There always seemed a harshness to that America, in terms of the bottom rung, but there also seemed to be a highly moral view of fairness, individual freedom and the responsibility to act.

This is probably why I have a love/hate relationship with America *smiles* I do believe you represent the best and worst of modern western civilisation. You epitomise it.

dar512 · 10-28-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I survived the September 11th attacks, along with 99.99999% of the rest of America. I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists attacks than the police state we are in today.

This sort of thing is one of the major reasons I will not be voting republican for this election.

Pie · 10-28-2008, 09:11 AM

Yep, glatt, I was pissed off at the "police state" mentality the day after 911 and have remained so every day since. I am far more scared of my government than "the terrorists".

To trot out the tired old saw,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Shawnee123 · 10-28-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

This sort of thing is one of the major reasons I will not be voting republican for this election.

Yes. The culture of fear has been twofold: the government imposes limitations to our liberty to "protect" us, and those of us under the thumb of fear are to smile and nod because we feel the need to be "protected." Implied danger has given Big Brother free reign, and this police state can only be usurped if more than one or two of us is willing to refuse illegal search or seizure.

But then we're late for work, or something. What are our options?

I wish I would be the civil disobedient, and refuse the slight to my freedom, but I probably won't be.

Cicero · 10-28-2008, 09:57 AM

That sounds like what the police should be doing.Plllbt. A random search isn't going to stop a terrorist. Especially if they know that random searches occur. This isn't about that anymore though, now is it?

TheMercenary · 10-28-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

This sort of thing is one of the major reasons I will not be voting republican for this election.

Why, the Democratic Congress made it all possible, they are the ones who approved the laws that expanded the police powers of the country. You want Big Government, you are about to get it.

Shawnee123 · 10-28-2008, 12:30 PM

Clodfobble · 10-28-2008, 12:32 PM

I wonder how long before the ACLU gets a hold of this one.

lumberjim · 10-28-2008, 01:01 PM

jinx and I were randomly selected to be searched when we flew from AZ to Cabo. they repeated that it was purely a random search. they didnt check inout bags, just pulled us a side and gave us a light pat down. i had my cell phone in the leg pocket of my jeans, and he totally missed that. it could have been a big knife or a box cutter. i think the girl cop just wanted to rub jinx a little. srsly.

dar512 · 10-28-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why, the Democratic Congress made it all possible, they are the ones who approved the laws that expanded the police powers of the country. You want Big Government, you are about to get it.

This statement is wrong in so many ways.

If the republican party was ever about smaller government, it isn't any more. Or will you try to convince me that the federal government has shrunk over the last eight years?

And, of course, the size of a government has no relationship to whether it infringes personal liberty. Dictatorships have very low overhead.

Did you intentionally palm that card or was it a knee jerk response?

glatt · 10-28-2008, 02:10 PM

I've been randomly selected before in airports too. This pisses me off so much because it's everyday life that they are doing this. Imagine if they randomly selected you at the N.J. state border on your commute to work. That's what this is.

I just wrote a letter to the board of directors of the transit agency. I hope they read it.

The sky's not falling, because it's only 15 cops to search 1.2 million people, but that's also why it won't work. So why go through the trouble of violating the rights of every law abiding citizen they do randomly select?

classicman · 10-28-2008, 02:39 PM

I wonder. Do they have some information of some type of impending terrorist attack? Not that it would warrant them infringing on rights, but still.

glatt · 10-28-2008, 03:03 PM

Ever since the bombings in Madrid, intelligence agencies have said that the time before and just after an election are peak times for attacks.

But WMATA didn't say that this is a temporary measure. It's a new policy and they are training more people to implement it further in the future.

10-28-2008, 08:47 AM	#1
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm angry this morning I read in the paper this mornig that DC area public transportation cops are going to start randomly searching bags of law abiding citizens before allowing them to board buses and trains. No probable cause that a crime has been committed by that person is needed, and neither is a search warrant. The cops will just randomly pick you and search you. For no reason at all. I was annoyed by the increases in airport "security," and grumbled about it, but I only fly once every few years, so that didn't impact me much. Going into a sporting event or concert, there is also security, but that's like entering private property and is rare for me, so I was OK with that too. But this news really pisses me off. This is searching people for no reason as they go about their normal daily business. And then barring them from travel if they don't consent to a search. I survived the September 11th attacks, along with 99.99999% of the rest of America. I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists attacks than the police state we are in today. I know what I'm asking for here, I saw 9/11 with my own eyes in my own town. I'll refuse to consent to any search, and according to the article, I will be turned away from transportation that day. They will stop me from going about my normal daily business.

10-28-2008, 09:57 AM	#7
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	That sounds like what the police should be doing.Plllbt. A random search isn't going to stop a terrorist. Especially if they know that random searches occur. This isn't about that anymore though, now is it? __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-28-2008, 12:30 PM	#9
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	__________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

10-28-2008, 12:32 PM	#10
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I wonder how long before the ACLU gets a hold of this one. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

10-28-2008, 01:01 PM	#11
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	jinx and I were randomly selected to be searched when we flew from AZ to Cabo. they repeated that it was purely a random search. they didnt check inout bags, just pulled us a side and gave us a light pat down. i had my cell phone in the leg pocket of my jeans, and he totally missed that. it could have been a big knife or a box cutter. i think the girl cop just wanted to rub jinx a little. srsly. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-28-2008, 09:03 AM	#2
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	That would make me angry too, Glatt. It often seems to me that we have more to worry about from the terrorists within than the terrorists without. Bin Laden must be feeling pretty smug today as he watches the US gradually implode from within. 9/11 was successful beyond his wildest dreams.

10-28-2008, 09:05 AM	#3
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	That's outrageous. Our police have extensive stop and search powers, which may or may not be misused (depends which part of town you live in, and what your ethnic origin is, I suspect). I sort of expect better of America on that sort of thing. I don't know why, I am no starry eyed idealist. I think it's probably a hang-up from the America I saw as a kid growing up. What America stood for on cinema and television screens. There always seemed a harshness to that America, in terms of the bottom rung, but there also seemed to be a highly moral view of fairness, individual freedom and the responsibility to act. This is probably why I have a love/hate relationship with America smiles I do believe you represent the best and worst of modern western civilisation. You epitomise it.

10-28-2008, 02:10 PM	#13
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I've been randomly selected before in airports too. This pisses me off so much because it's everyday life that they are doing this. Imagine if they randomly selected you at the N.J. state border on your commute to work. That's what this is. I just wrote a letter to the board of directors of the transit agency. I hope they read it. The sky's not falling, because it's only 15 cops to search 1.2 million people, but that's also why it won't work. So why go through the trouble of violating the rights of every law abiding citizen they do randomly select?

10-28-2008, 02:39 PM	#14
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I wonder. Do they have some information of some type of impending terrorist attack? Not that it would warrant them infringing on rights, but still. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

10-28-2008, 03:03 PM	#15
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Ever since the bombings in Madrid, intelligence agencies have said that the time before and just after an election are peak times for attacks. But WMATA didn't say that this is a temporary measure. It's a new policy and they are training more people to implement it further in the future.

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