I'm angry this morning

glatt · 10-28-2008, 08:47 AM

I read in the paper this mornig that DC area public transportation cops are going to start randomly searching bags of law abiding citizens before allowing them to board buses and trains. No probable cause that a crime has been committed by that person is needed, and neither is a search warrant. The cops will just randomly pick you and search you. For no reason at all.

I was annoyed by the increases in airport "security," and grumbled about it, but I only fly once every few years, so that didn't impact me much. Going into a sporting event or concert, there is also security, but that's like entering private property and is rare for me, so I was OK with that too.

But this news really pisses me off. This is searching people for no reason as they go about their normal daily business. And then barring them from travel if they don't consent to a search.

I survived the September 11th attacks, along with 99.99999% of the rest of America. I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists attacks than the police state we are in today. I know what I'm asking for here, I saw 9/11 with my own eyes in my own town.

I'll refuse to consent to any search, and according to the article, I will be turned away from transportation that day. They will stop me from going about my normal daily business.

SamIam · 10-28-2008, 09:03 AM

That would make me angry too, Glatt. It often seems to me that we have more to worry about from the terrorists within than the terrorists without. Bin Laden must be feeling pretty smug today as he watches the US gradually implode from within. 9/11 was successful beyond his wildest dreams.

DanaC · 10-28-2008, 09:05 AM

That's outrageous. Our police have extensive stop and search powers, which may or may not be misused (depends which part of town you live in, and what your ethnic origin is, I suspect).

I sort of expect better of America on that sort of thing. I don't know why, I am no starry eyed idealist. I think it's probably a hang-up from the America I saw as a kid growing up. What America stood for on cinema and television screens. There always seemed a harshness to that America, in terms of the bottom rung, but there also seemed to be a highly moral view of fairness, individual freedom and the responsibility to act.

This is probably why I have a love/hate relationship with America *smiles* I do believe you represent the best and worst of modern western civilisation. You epitomise it.

dar512 · 10-28-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I survived the September 11th attacks, along with 99.99999% of the rest of America. I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists attacks than the police state we are in today.

This sort of thing is one of the major reasons I will not be voting republican for this election.

Shawnee123 · 10-28-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

This sort of thing is one of the major reasons I will not be voting republican for this election.

Yes. The culture of fear has been twofold: the government imposes limitations to our liberty to "protect" us, and those of us under the thumb of fear are to smile and nod because we feel the need to be "protected." Implied danger has given Big Brother free reign, and this police state can only be usurped if more than one or two of us is willing to refuse illegal search or seizure.

But then we're late for work, or something. What are our options?

I wish I would be the civil disobedient, and refuse the slight to my freedom, but I probably won't be.

TheMercenary · 10-28-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

This sort of thing is one of the major reasons I will not be voting republican for this election.

Why, the Democratic Congress made it all possible, they are the ones who approved the laws that expanded the police powers of the country. You want Big Government, you are about to get it.

dar512 · 10-28-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why, the Democratic Congress made it all possible, they are the ones who approved the laws that expanded the police powers of the country. You want Big Government, you are about to get it.

This statement is wrong in so many ways.

If the republican party was ever about smaller government, it isn't any more. Or will you try to convince me that the federal government has shrunk over the last eight years?

And, of course, the size of a government has no relationship to whether it infringes personal liberty. Dictatorships have very low overhead.

Did you intentionally palm that card or was it a knee jerk response?

SamIam · 10-28-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why, the Democratic Congress made it all possible, they are the ones who approved the laws that expanded the police powers of the country. You want Big Government, you are about to get it.

Hello? What are you? Four years old? The Congress and the excutive branch at the time of 9/11 were Republican. They remained Republican when all those happy new laws were passed which detract from our liberties. It is the Republicans who want to look in our windows and tell us what kind of sex to have. It is the Republicans who want to deny a 16 year old rape victim access to an abortion. Ever hear of the Evangelical Right? Get a grip, Merc. The Republicans are hardly the scions of civil rights that you seem to think they are.

TheMercenary · 10-28-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIam

Hello? What are you? Four years old? The Congress and the excutive branch at the time of 9/11 were Republican. They remained Republican when all those happy new laws were passed which detract from our liberties. It is the Republicans who want to look in our windows and tell us what kind of sex to have. It is the Republicans who want to deny a 16 year old rape victim access to an abortion. Ever hear of the Evangelical Right? Get a grip, Merc. The Republicans are hardly the scions of civil rights that you seem to think they are.

Hello? What are you? 2 years old? What are you? Four Years old? The Congress and the excutive branch for the last 2 years have been completely controlled by the demoncrats.

Elspode · 10-28-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Hello? What are you? 2 years old? What are you? Four Years old? The Congress and the excutive branch for the last 2 years have been completely controlled by the demoncrats.

Um. The Patriot Act was passed under a Republican majority.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-28-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

This sort of thing is one of the major reasons I will not be voting republican for this election.

I will be voting Republican. The Democrats will lose the war in a disgraceful hurry, just like they've wanted to for years. That will make Osama very very happy, just like killing thousands of Americans does. So the Dem Party is just too big a pack of morons to merit support by anyone with a respect for freedom.

Voting Dems in will not fix this DC problem, Dar.

Elspode · 10-28-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I will be voting Republican. The Democrats will lose the war in a disgraceful hurry, just like they've wanted to for years. That will make Osama very very happy, just like killing thousands of Americans does. So the Dem Party is just too big a pack of morons to merit support by anyone with a respect for freedom.

Voting Dems in will not fix this DC problem, Dar.

Leaving Republicans in won't make it get any less oppressive, either.

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-05-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

Leaving Republicans in won't make it get any less oppressive, either.

Inasmuch as there hasn't been any -- I'd've known -- maybe you're right.

For years there has been a deal of bellowing about "Our rights are violated, including our rights under the Third Amendment, and others ad nauseam! And you're all oppressed!" from people who are driven less by civil rights concerns than by the most virulent and discreditable prejudice against Republicans. These bellowers are without credibility, being penile-encephaly cases all. Their allegations just don't impress the thoughtful as having any substance. You'd think these fellows don't want to win the war or something, the way they violently objected to every imaginable measure to actually win it.

glatt · 11-05-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

For years there has been a deal of bellowing about "Our rights are violated, including our rights under the Third Amendment, and others ad nauseam! And you're all oppressed!" from people who are driven less by civil rights concerns than by the most virulent and discreditable prejudice against Republicans.

In this case, the officials behind the policy are mostly Democrats.

Pie · 10-28-2008, 09:11 AM

Yep, glatt, I was pissed off at the "police state" mentality the day after 911 and have remained so every day since. I am far more scared of my government than "the terrorists".

To trot out the tired old saw,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

10-28-2008, 08:47 AM	#1
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm angry this morning I read in the paper this mornig that DC area public transportation cops are going to start randomly searching bags of law abiding citizens before allowing them to board buses and trains. No probable cause that a crime has been committed by that person is needed, and neither is a search warrant. The cops will just randomly pick you and search you. For no reason at all. I was annoyed by the increases in airport "security," and grumbled about it, but I only fly once every few years, so that didn't impact me much. Going into a sporting event or concert, there is also security, but that's like entering private property and is rare for me, so I was OK with that too. But this news really pisses me off. This is searching people for no reason as they go about their normal daily business. And then barring them from travel if they don't consent to a search. I survived the September 11th attacks, along with 99.99999% of the rest of America. I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists attacks than the police state we are in today. I know what I'm asking for here, I saw 9/11 with my own eyes in my own town. I'll refuse to consent to any search, and according to the article, I will be turned away from transportation that day. They will stop me from going about my normal daily business.

10-28-2008, 09:03 AM	#2
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	That would make me angry too, Glatt. It often seems to me that we have more to worry about from the terrorists within than the terrorists without. Bin Laden must be feeling pretty smug today as he watches the US gradually implode from within. 9/11 was successful beyond his wildest dreams.

10-28-2008, 09:05 AM	#3
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	That's outrageous. Our police have extensive stop and search powers, which may or may not be misused (depends which part of town you live in, and what your ethnic origin is, I suspect). I sort of expect better of America on that sort of thing. I don't know why, I am no starry eyed idealist. I think it's probably a hang-up from the America I saw as a kid growing up. What America stood for on cinema and television screens. There always seemed a harshness to that America, in terms of the bottom rung, but there also seemed to be a highly moral view of fairness, individual freedom and the responsibility to act. This is probably why I have a love/hate relationship with America smiles I do believe you represent the best and worst of modern western civilisation. You epitomise it.

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