It was either here, or in Technology

Elspode · 10-08-2003, 09:40 PM

Interesting article regarding a possible link between naval sonar and aquatic mammal strandings and deaths...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ce_dolphins_dc

Pretty freaky, huh?

Beestie · 10-09-2003, 08:57 AM

Maybe they could just change the wavelength to one outside of the "problem range" for these animals.

I wonder what those pings sound like to whales that could make them want to get the hell out of there so fast.

OnyxCougar · 10-09-2003, 09:31 AM

I'm not an activist or anything, or against technology, but this just makes me sad.

Our technology is causing serious damage to the environment again, but the article doesn't mention anything about what they are doing to change the way they use sonar or develop other systems. Just, "yeah, it's widely accepted that our sonar harms the cetaceans, and now we have evidence that says it actually gives them the bends. That's too bad."

Military superiority is always more important than innocent lives.

Beestie · 10-09-2003, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Our technology is causing serious damage to the environment

True but the problem (technology) is also the solution. I'd say its not so much technology - little more than a powerful tool - but human nature that causes environmental damage.

It always gets back to having to compete with those who have less regard for the rules than you do.

[edited to fix grammatical error - content unchanged]

DNK · 10-09-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Military superiority is always more important than innocent lives.

Military superiority also protects innocent lives.

GBA

DNK

juju · 10-09-2003, 12:23 PM

Perhaps the sonar interferes with their natural navigation methods?

Elspode · 10-09-2003, 01:28 PM

I would assume that the frequencies being used have been carefully chosen for the desired application, and are probably therefore the best for the usage intended. It is unlikely that Navy brass would accept any changes that would degrade the performance of their systems.

The factors involved are both the range of frequencies being used, and the intensity of the sound. You have to make a really, really loud noise in many cases to make sonar do what you want.

Beestie · 10-09-2003, 07:11 PM

Looks like Elspode is on the money .

Quote:

...the Navy conducted an intense active sonar exercise... emitting high-energy, mid frequency sonar at between 215 and 235dB... Sound at 235dB produces a pressure wave 300,000 times more intense than an 180dB sound, and 100 billion times more intense than a 120dB sound, which is like a loud motorboat engine.

Quote:

..."the killing is largely due to injurious resonance phenomena created by the U.S. Naval sonar system in the whales' cranial airspaces, tearing apart delicate tissues around the brains and ears."

Now I understand why the animals are bolting to the surface with such reckless abandon. Gotta be a better way to do this. Why can't they use radar or something???

Griff · 10-10-2003, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DNK

Military superiority also protects innocent lives.

That is an urban legend.

Pie · 10-10-2003, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beestie
Now I understand why the animals are bolting to the surface with such reckless abandon. Gotta be a better way to do this. Why can't they use radar or something???

Radar frequencies won't propagate under water.

- Pie

xoxoxoBruce · 10-10-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff

That is an urban legend.

How can you say that? Without a strong military those damn Canadians would be on us in a heartbeat.

Griff · 10-10-2003, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pie

Radar frequencies won't propagate under water.

- Pie

Did you mean, "Radar's frequency doesn't propagate anywhere."

slang · 10-10-2003, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
anywhere *."

* - cept slang's feeble mind.

Beestie · 10-13-2003, 01:50 PM

Well I'll be damned - check this out:

Navy to Limit Deployment of Low Frequency Sonar

Good work, people!

OnyxCougar · 10-13-2003, 03:40 PM

Well, it's a good start, but so is 1 million lawyers drowning in the ocean.

Reorder a few paragraphs from that article:

Quote:

Surette said that there is no scientific support to the charge that low-frequency sonar will harm sea creatures and that the Navy spent $10 million to do an environmental impact assessment that found in its favor. But other researchers have concluded that high-powered sonar can and does cause marine mammals to beach themselves and die.

In particular, Surette said, the Navy wants to see the law clarified regarding what constitutes "harassment" of whales, dolphins and porpoises, and how many of them can be inadvertently killed without breaking environmental laws.

Oh yeah, he sure cares about the cetaceans. We can tell. Prolly sends em a can of tuna for Christmas. Jerk.

10-08-2003, 09:40 PM	#1
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	It was either here, or in Technology Interesting article regarding a possible link between naval sonar and aquatic mammal strandings and deaths... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ce_dolphins_dc Pretty freaky, huh? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

10-09-2003, 08:57 AM	#2
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Maybe they could just change the wavelength to one outside of the "problem range" for these animals. I wonder what those pings sound like to whales that could make them want to get the hell out of there so fast. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

10-09-2003, 09:31 AM	#3
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	I'm not an activist or anything, or against technology, but this just makes me sad. Our technology is causing serious damage to the environment again, but the article doesn't mention anything about what they are doing to change the way they use sonar or develop other systems. Just, "yeah, it's widely accepted that our sonar harms the cetaceans, and now we have evidence that says it actually gives them the bends. That's too bad." Military superiority is always more important than innocent lives. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

10-09-2003, 01:28 PM	#7
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I would assume that the frequencies being used have been carefully chosen for the desired application, and are probably therefore the best for the usage intended. It is unlikely that Navy brass would accept any changes that would degrade the performance of their systems. The factors involved are both the range of frequencies being used, and the intensity of the sound. You have to make a really, really loud noise in many cases to make sonar do what you want. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

10-13-2003, 01:50 PM	#14
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Well I'll be damned - check this out: Navy to Limit Deployment of Low Frequency Sonar Good work, people! __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

10-09-2003, 12:23 PM	#6
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Perhaps the sonar interferes with their natural navigation methods?

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