SicKo- Seen it?

[Cicero]

I saw it over the weekend, and I had no idea it was going to be about Universal Healthcare. I thought that was awesome....

Not that I think it would work under the current powers-that-be.....but it would be great to work towards.


What do you think?



Still friends? Ok, I'm just going to back away very slowly.....


If this poll doesn't turn out right it's Shawnee's fault!

[Jeboduuza]

Right heree. http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14493

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Jeboduuza

Right heree. http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14493

Yea......I was afraid of that....*sorry*.....



but in my own defense....mine includes a poll and a genuine request to hear informed (or uninformed) opinions.

[Happy Monkey]

I saw it. It made me think- the Milgram experiment was intended to discover how far someone would go when "just following orders." I always had a feeling about it that the subject of the experiment had a reasonable expectation that the "victim" would be fine, just because it was a Yale University study.

HMOs have set up (and, from the Nixon call, deliberately from the offset) a Milgram experiment for real, where the subjects know without a doubt that their action will kill someone. And they do it, because it's a job. The scenes with the woman who weeded out claims were some of the most powerful in the film.

[Flint]

I got a better Milgram Experiment: How much money can a fat liar make by hating freedom? [/"patriotic" commentary]

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I saw it. It made me think- the Milgram experiment was intended to discover how far someone would go when "just following orders." I always had a feeling about it that the subject of the experiment had a reasonable expectation that the "victim" would be fine, just because it was a Yale University study.

HMOs have set up (and, from the Nixon call, deliberately from the offset) a Milgram experiment for real, where the subjects know without a doubt that their action will kill someone. And they do it, because it's a job. The scenes with the woman who weeded out claims were some of the most powerful in the film.

I think that Peggy Fino (Blue Cross/Humana) was her name...my dad works for them right now and I'm thinking of asking him some straight-forward questons. (that's the only way for him to give an answer)

He's some sort of director for southern branches....An administrator should have some good answers for me.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Michael Moore abuses America and is not remotely constructive. Which is why middle America abuses Moore right back, and more power to them.

I make a point of absolutely never putting money in Michael Moore's pocket.

[Clodfobble]

The question is what are your hands doing in Michael Moore's pockets in the first place?

My wife worked in managed care for a while.
The most broken system one can possibly imagine.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Michael Moore abuses America and is not remotely constructive. Which is why middle America abuses Moore right back, and more power to them.

I make a point of absolutely never putting money in Michael Moore's pocket.

What about healthcare reform? Can talking about it be constructive without molesting Michael Moore's pockets?

[Happy Monkey]

Is there a way to set up a health care system in which capitalist pressures would lead to HMOs actually competing to cover sick people, rather than accepting their dues when they're healthy and then dropping them at the first sign of illness?

Capitalism only works if the pressures of competition push things in a good direction. Is there a way to organize health insurance along those lines?

Yes there is, my wife talked about it all the time. Set it up so they directly compete and cannot work together, which they do.
She used to have such a hard time, so upset after fighting for people's lives with terrible people who wanted to deny surgeries for things like someone's pancreas or liver.
There is no system for the patient.

[Happy Monkey]

How would stopping collusion change the fact that their best business model is to not pay out? If collusion were successfully eliminated, the theory would be that one (or more) of them would actually start paying claims, word would get out, and they would get all the business, right? Couldn't a company do that now, and steal all the business away from the cartel?

I think that the people who want to deny surgeries are in all of the companies, regardless of collusion. In a country where shareholders can sue successfully if a company fails to do something that could have helped the bottom line, how can you prevent it?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Is there a way to set up a health care system in which capitalist pressures would lead to HMOs actually competing to cover sick people, rather than accepting their dues when they're healthy and then dropping them at the first sign of illness?

Capitalism only works if the pressures of competition push things in a good direction. Is there a way to organize health insurance along those lines?

Maybe "Insurance" is a poor concept when it comes to Health in the first place. Back to step 1.

We want guarantees against possible losses, which is why we buy insurance.

When we look at our health and the health of our families (and typical needs) the losses are definite.

What in the hell are we doing?

There is nothing wrong with that, the companies just need to pay when the time comes.