SicKo- Seen it?

[Cicero]

I saw it over the weekend, and I had no idea it was going to be about Universal Healthcare. I thought that was awesome....

Not that I think it would work under the current powers-that-be.....but it would be great to work towards.


What do you think?



Still friends? Ok, I'm just going to back away very slowly.....


If this poll doesn't turn out right it's Shawnee's fault!

[Jeboduuza]

Right heree. http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14493

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Jeboduuza

Right heree. http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14493

Yea......I was afraid of that....*sorry*.....



but in my own defense....mine includes a poll and a genuine request to hear informed (or uninformed) opinions.

[Drax]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yea......I was afraid of that....*sorry*.....



but in my own defense....mine includes a poll and a genuine request to hear informed (or uninformed) opinions.

Also, you essentially ask if our feller dwellers have seen Sicko. NB's asks if we have heard of it, and by now, who hasn't?

[Happy Monkey]

I saw it. It made me think- the Milgram experiment was intended to discover how far someone would go when "just following orders." I always had a feeling about it that the subject of the experiment had a reasonable expectation that the "victim" would be fine, just because it was a Yale University study.

HMOs have set up (and, from the Nixon call, deliberately from the offset) a Milgram experiment for real, where the subjects know without a doubt that their action will kill someone. And they do it, because it's a job. The scenes with the woman who weeded out claims were some of the most powerful in the film.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I saw it. It made me think- the Milgram experiment was intended to discover how far someone would go when "just following orders." I always had a feeling about it that the subject of the experiment had a reasonable expectation that the "victim" would be fine, just because it was a Yale University study.

HMOs have set up (and, from the Nixon call, deliberately from the offset) a Milgram experiment for real, where the subjects know without a doubt that their action will kill someone. And they do it, because it's a job. The scenes with the woman who weeded out claims were some of the most powerful in the film.

I think that Peggy Fino (Blue Cross/Humana) was her name...my dad works for them right now and I'm thinking of asking him some straight-forward questons. (that's the only way for him to give an answer)

He's some sort of director for southern branches....An administrator should have some good answers for me.

[Flint]

I got a better Milgram Experiment: How much money can a fat liar make by hating freedom? [/"patriotic" commentary]

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Michael Moore abuses America and is not remotely constructive. Which is why middle America abuses Moore right back, and more power to them.

I make a point of absolutely never putting money in Michael Moore's pocket.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Michael Moore abuses America and is not remotely constructive. Which is why middle America abuses Moore right back, and more power to them.

I make a point of absolutely never putting money in Michael Moore's pocket.

What about healthcare reform? Can talking about it be constructive without molesting Michael Moore's pockets?

[Clodfobble]

The question is what are your hands doing in Michael Moore's pockets in the first place?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

The question is what are your hands doing in Michael Moore's pockets in the first place?

And the perennial answer is nothing. I might touch him with a sculling oar -- hard, and repeatedly -- for his intellectual dishonesties in Fahrenheit 9-11 and his "expose" on the NRA. Really, MM doesn't do nonfiction... not at bottom. It's not so much that his ass is fat -- it's his head.

My wife worked in managed care for a while.
The most broken system one can possibly imagine.

[Happy Monkey]

Is there a way to set up a health care system in which capitalist pressures would lead to HMOs actually competing to cover sick people, rather than accepting their dues when they're healthy and then dropping them at the first sign of illness?

Capitalism only works if the pressures of competition push things in a good direction. Is there a way to organize health insurance along those lines?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Is there a way to set up a health care system in which capitalist pressures would lead to HMOs actually competing to cover sick people, rather than accepting their dues when they're healthy and then dropping them at the first sign of illness?

Capitalism only works if the pressures of competition push things in a good direction. Is there a way to organize health insurance along those lines?

Maybe "Insurance" is a poor concept when it comes to Health in the first place. Back to step 1.

We want guarantees against possible losses, which is why we buy insurance.

When we look at our health and the health of our families (and typical needs) the losses are definite.

What in the hell are we doing?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Maybe "Insurance" is a poor concept when it comes to Health in the first place. Back to step 1.

That's what I'm wondering. Insurance is supposed to work when the majority of subscribers never need it, so there are large sums available for the few who do. Is that model valid for healthcare? HMOs are forcing it into the model by discouraging or preventing payouts. If they did pay claims, would it work?