US Military Treatment Of Atheists

I'm sure many of you have heard about the disparaging remarks made by military personnel about Tillman and his family. Hopefully you were as disgusted by this as I. I wanted to think it was because of the publicity.
But, I was wrong and I knew I was.

Wayne Adkins cites religious discrimination against atheists as his reason for resigning from the Army National Guard.
I have posted documentation of the military unlawful mishandling of my formal OE complaint here: http://www.nakedemperor.netfirms.com/

[Happy Monkey]

Now we know the real reason there are no atheists in foxholes.

[lookout123]

there was no shortage of atheists while i was in.

Exactly, bigotry.
I have always found that little saying to be incredibly insulting, some health care morons use it too.

Good to hear.
I think it depends on who you are serving with and who your CO is.
It should not. Religion should never enter into it, it is a personal matter alone.

Reprinted from another board, with permission.

I take a great deal of offense to the "No Atheists In Foxholes" comment that is prevalent in the military. I am a member of both the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (MAAF) and Atheists in Foxholes (AiF).

I have been involved in several EO (Equal Opportunity) complaints against military chaplains and commanders for their complete and total disregard for Atheists. I have posted on some of these before.

I got into a little bit of trouble recently. At a briefing where the chaplain gave an invocation, he said the 'no atheists...' comment. I said, a little too loudly, "And there are no Christians in prison either." Since I was overheard by quite a few people, I was asked to repeat my comment. I did so very loudly. The conversation proceeded as follows:

"How could you make such an offensive statement sergeant?"

to which I replied, "What are you talking about, sir, I am not even here."

"What do you mean?" He said.

"Well, SIR, if there are no atheists in foxholes, as you claim; I could not possible be here in Iraq." Perhaps my crisis of faith has confused me, SIR, but it is you who have offended me."

I walked out and got a stern talking to about disrespecting officers. I won't ever put up with that shit. I didn't get into any formal trouble but I sure as hell held my ground. And I will do it again and again and again...

It is the disregard that pisses me off. I will sit through the invocation with my head held high and fully respect my comrades and their religious choices. I won't sit idly by while some asshole disregards mine.

Personally I feel that the God Corps are a BLATANT infringement on church and state and should not exist in any form or fashion and should be disbanded.
They should be offered a door or a weapon and given a choice.

[SamIam]

I presume the briefing mentioned in the quote above was a required one. As a result, everyone had to sit through the chaplain's trite little invocation. This is annoying if one is an atheist, but not the end of the world. The military does not force religious service attendence upon its members. If one is going to go on some crusade against the armed forces, I can think of at least a 100 better causes, rather than whether some idiot wants to make a blanket pronouncement on people's responses when facing death.

I've always heard that most people call for their Mommy, for what its worth.

[xoxoxoBruce]

His crusade isn't against the military, it's against Christians.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

His crusade isn't against the military, it's against Christians.

Wrong as usual.
I love Christians and don't care what people believe, just what they do.
No unsolicited evangelizing, especially door-to-door/phone calls (religion or sales should be illegal).
No breech of church and state of any kind and all current needs to be eliminated. Specific to this thread the god corps.
No abuse of children by teaching them if they offend god by "sinning" or leaving the "faith" they will eternally tortured in god's personal dungeon that he created specially for them.
No using the "faith" to justify hitting kids.

Once these things stop, I will stop saying a word.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I love Christians and don't care what people believe, just what they do.

To Christians, belief is action. What we do is what we believe. Of course it varies, sometimes greatly, between Christians exactly what they believe. But in the end Christians are called to act on their beliefs. Believe and do are one in the same for us. I'm sorry that makes you hate us.

Originally Posted by SamIam

I presume the briefing mentioned in the quote above was a required one. As a result, everyone had to sit through the chaplain's trite little invocation. This is annoying if one is an atheist, but not the end of the world. The military does not force religious service attendence upon its members. If one is going to go on some crusade against the armed forces, I can think of at least a 100 better causes, rather than whether some idiot wants to make a blanket pronouncement on people's responses when facing death.

I've always heard that most people call for their Mommy, for what its worth.

I would love to hear any stories of an atheist stating that they would not attend a meeting with Chaplains, which are officers (a travesty).
Hilarity would ensure, I'm sure.
I FULLY support our troops, that is why I am against this breech of the separation of church and state and forced intrusion of their personal worship on their behalf.
There are so many things one can do than fight for the rights of our soldiers in these times?
Please, enlighten me.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

There are so many things one can do than fight for the rights of our soldiers in these times?
Please, enlighten me.

Couple of examples:

The treatment a soldier receives when s/he is diagnosed with PTSD. An unconscionable number are treated as cowards or traitors, broken down in rank, and given dishonorable discharges. This means no help from the V.A., either.

Not that help from the V.A. is all that great. There are endless examples of wounded and/or disabled soldiers getting sub-standard care from the VA and over-burdened military hospitals.

Soldiers in the field in Iraq and Afganistan often have inadequate supplies and armoured protection, although I hear that's gotten somewhat better.

Etc. etc., etc.

Glad to hear that you love Christians, BTW.

Originally Posted by SamIam

Couple of examples:

The treatment a soldier receives when s/he is diagnosed with PTSD. An unconscionable number are treated as cowards or traitors, broken down in rank, and given dishonorable discharges. This means no help from the V.A., either.

Not that help from the V.A. is all that great. There are endless examples of wounded and/or disabled soldiers getting sub-standard care from the VA and over-burdened military hospitals.

Soldiers in the field in Iraq and Afganistan often have inadequate supplies and armoured protection, although I hear that's gotten somewhat better.

Etc. etc., etc.

Glad to hear that you love Christians, BTW.

I am married to one, my closest friend, many of my other friends are and many in my family are you fucking simpleton.
They all know how I feel and what I do to fight what "The Church" does and support me because they know that they hypocrisy harms the religion far more than anything else.

If not, then they aren't the subject of the complaint.

Precisely, you don't say homosexuality is a sin, don't use contraception if you need it, breech church and state, threaten kids with hell or use to bible to justify hitting them or push your religion on others... I can give a fuck what you believe.
We ALL believe things that are wrong, everyone.

That is why 98% of those in prison are theists?
I hate no one.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That is why 98% of those in prison are theists?
I hate no one.

Any Christian who claims to be perfect is a hypocrite. Everyone does stupid stuff, everyone makes mistakes, some make extremely bad ones. To be a Christian does mean that you are perfect or are even striving to be. It means that you are trying to better the world around you and serve your fellow man as Jesus directed.
I shouldn't have used the word hate, but I think you see my point.