Amnesty In America

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

Especially the part where posts are based on invented facts. Invaded? They are here because we need workers, they need the work, and the law is written to undermine free market principles. 1.8 million needed just for agriculture. So the law only permits 29,000. An intelligent person would say the law is wrong. But no-o-o-o. We must enforce an unenforceable law only because it is a law.

OK, keep the 1.8 million working in agriculture and send the other 15 million home.

Another outright lie - illegal immigrants cost us more money. A complete myth. They pay taxes and don't apply for refunds.

You still don't think the ones not working for cash, are too stupid to fill out a W-4 form with a bunch of dependents, so they not only don't have to apply for a refund they end up delinquent before they move on.

There are a slew of websites with tons of charts and numbers saying you're wrong, but you'll say they are bias and lying.
OK, lets take the state of Minnesota which would be far below the states with big impact like CA, TX, etc. This report by the The Office of Strategic Planning & Results Management, Minnesota Department of Administration, to Governor Tim Pawlenty.
Federal cost per household headed by an illegal alien... $2736 each
Minnesota deports most of the illegal alien criminals, but the really serious criminals cost $13 million to incarcerate.
Medical care? Minnesota ate $36 million on illegals.
K-12 education has two categories;
Illegal alien kids = $118 million
legal kids of illegal aliens = $39 million

Again, this is Minnesota, faaaaaaar from the border, with a relatively small population of Illegals.

They are some of the best employees in town.

Now that's an anecdotal generalization that can't be applied to ANY single group

When removed in mass, the region then goes into economic downturn. 60 Minutes in June 2006 demonstrated this myopia when we complain about the illegals. Federal agents were invited into Nebraska to sweep illegals from meat processing plants. Federal sweep was so successful that the region suffered a massive economic downturn. The Feds were strongly invited to leave so that the illegals would come back.

The greedy meat packing plants hired a raft of cheap illegals to boost their profits in violation of Federal law, and when they got caught red handed, all of a sudden they are short handed. Boo hoo for them, they deserve much worse.
So we should let the robber barons have their way? Go back a hundred years in human and workers rights? Going back to the days when people didn't know if they would still be employed at the end of the day? Jobs weren't made any safer than would save the company money, which wasn't much, because there's plenty of cheap labor waiting outside the door if you get killed on the job? Back to the days when if you get sick and miss a day, you are permanently replaced? Fuck that shit.

As if the lessons of prohibition can be forgotten, suddenly we blame porous borders. More bull by those who only know because they can shit?

Your slinging bull. The lesson of prohibition is that the government can't stop the people from something if they want it. The war on drugs proves it all over again. None of that applies to this situation because the people don't want illegals running around the country. Even the ones that want them here want the government to know who they are. Only an idiot would want anyone that feels like it, waltzing across the border unchecked.

In the Silicon Valley, ICs are important. That's not integrated circuits. ICs now account for more than 50% of the employees: Indians and Chinese. Even there, H1-B government approval has been limited by stupid laws causing some companies to move operations out of America. More immigration problems solved - by driving businesses out of the country. Blame those evil Indians and Chinese by passing more legal restrictions.

Substitute cheap labor for ICs. The robber barons are international and China is subcontracting to Africa for cheaper labor. They will work real cheap and hopefully their mud hut won't wash away next time it rains. But hey, it's a step up from cardboard, so they should be grateful.
tw & co, want the US to be a third world country, figuring engineers will be OK, and maybe even respected. If they succeed they are more likely to be lynched.

Illegal immigration problem only exist where wacko extremist wants to blame the people and not blame draconian and myopically inspired laws. 29,000 visas for an industry that needs 1.8 million immigrants? That is justification for blaming those immigrants.

See UG is wrong, you're not a communist, you're an anarchist. The law is strangling business, don't change the law, just let everybody do what they damn well please. Ignore laws that cut into the robber barons profits. One bad quarter and they'll have to exercise that multi-million dollar golden parachute. Oh, the humanity

Pass a law that bans kissing anyone named Monica. That will solve all sex problems - in the same spirite of current immigration laws.

Careful there, it's the dry season and that strawman might burst into flames.

Only problem with illegal immigrants are those who know answers by denying the real problem - the law.

No the only real problem is people disregarding the law instead of changing it. It's too easy for that to become a habit... drivers license, insurance, good tires and brakes, he doesn't, why should I?

From outside the country, everything would appear confusing. They are not us. Therefore they must be evil. Ban them from the country. 29,000 visas for an industry that needs to employ 1.8 million immigrants. Therefore the law could never be wrong.

Change the law if it doesn't work. Are you trying to convince me the robber barons don't have the suck to do that? Bullshit. They want the illegals to be illegal so they can turn back the clock 100 years and they've got you shilling for them. They love employees they can harrass and intimidate, employees that can't say shit or they'll be turned in.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You still don't think the ones not working for cash, are too stupid to fill out a W-4 form with a bunch of dependents, so they not only don't have to apply for a refund they end up delinquent before they move on.

Bruce forgets one cannot even hire a nanny without filing those forms. The illegal immigrants we are discussing - this large majority who hold full time or other jobs that require SS numbers and withholding - do file W-4 forms. As long as those forms can be filed, then these illegal immigrants have jobs.

How were they finding so many illegals? Look for all the invented or borrowed SS numbers. Why? Bruce assumes they are all working only for cash. Business cannot do that and have employees. Even where ever I consult, they still want those numbers and forms. I may only do a job for a couple of weeks. They still want those numbers and forms - just like they want from their immigrant workers.

What happens to all that withheld pay? Nobody files to reclaim it. And so we have a problem with amnesty. Suddenly massive amounts of government tax dollars can be refunded to millions of workers.

The one requirement every employer has when he inadvertantly hires illegal immigrants. They must provide SS numbers and forms for the withholding - in direct opposition to what Bruce has posted. Yes, there are exceptions. But those exceptions are not the millions of workers who work illegally and make America greater.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

Bruce forgets one cannot even hire a nanny without filing those forms. The illegal immigrants we are discussing - this large majority who hold full time or other jobs that require SS numbers and withholding - do file W-4 forms. As long as those forms can be filed, then these illegal immigrants have jobs.

tw forgets that the W-4 form determines the amount of taxes taken out of each paycheck. If you lie about the number of dependents, when you file your taxes, the government wants proof of those deductions. No proof = fraud = the IRS up your butt forever. But tw claims these illegals are overpaying because they can't file for a refund. That means tw feels these illegals are too stupid to overstate the number of dependents on the W-4 to lower the tax bite, knowing they can't file anyway. How arrogant.

How were they finding so many illegals? Look for all the invented or borrowed SS numbers. Why? Bruce assumes they are all working only for cash. Business cannot do that and have employees. Even where ever I consult, they still want those numbers and forms. I may only do a job for a couple of weeks. They still want those numbers and forms - just like they want from their immigrant workers.

tw claims I assume all the illegals are working for cash because he can't read for comprehension when I actually said;

You still don't think the ones not working for cash, are too stupid to fill out a W-4 form with a bunch of dependents, so they not only don't have to apply for a refund they end up delinquent before they move on.

in post #27.

tw also claims that all illegals have to provide a SS number and fill out a W-4, for every job, because he does for his consulting. Of course tw is being engaged as an independent, self employed, contractor (think company) which most likely pays at least ten times the hourly rate these illegals are earning (think employee) for actually doing some work.
tw needs an MBA to straighten out his warped perspective.

What happens to all that withheld pay? Nobody files to reclaim it. And so we have a problem with amnesty. Suddenly massive amounts of government tax dollars can be refunded to millions of workers.

Aw fer Pete's sake, do you take us for idiots? Do you file to reclaim the taxes withheld from your pay? Do they give it to you? They keep mine along with everyone else's, unless we happen to give them a little too much. Since you have trouble with comprehension, once more, they don't give the government money that would be refunded if they were legal. They are NOT leaving claimable monies unclaimed. That is a complete and utter myth. And if you keep repeating it, knowing it's bullshit, it becomes a lie.

The one requirement every employer has when he inadvertantly hires illegal immigrants. They must provide SS numbers and forms for the withholding - in direct opposition to what Bruce has posted. Yes, there are exceptions. But those exceptions are not the millions of workers who work illegally and make America greater.

Now tw claims I said they don't fill out the W-4 forms, which is an outright lie, unless he didn't read my numerous posts in this and other threads describing how they can manipulate the W-4 forms.
I'm inclined to believe he's not lying, he just responds with his horseshit, without reading any other posts.

But that said, if you have any questions on power supplies, tw's your man.
Tell him Nixon sent you.