You Can't Prove You Exist

[Cloud]

Odd that this should come up in the "you can't prove you exist" thread, because one of the motivations, I think, that people have (among the legion) for body modification is just that--to prove to themselves that they exist, to reinforce the envelope of the body with meaning.

It's a tension between western society and history, and non-western society. The Greek ideal was of bodily perfection; furthered by the medieval Christian church's horror of imperfection and abnormaility, and by the Enlightenment philosophers, such as Decartes. "Civilization" in the Western view is the triumph of man over nature, but we are moving away from that.

Here is what Victoria Pitts, a scholar and the author of "In the Flesh" says:

"Among the problems of the self-mutiliation argument is that it uncritically relies on a classical ideal of the skin as a pristine, smooth, closed envelope for the self, and a notion of the body and self as fixed and unchanging. These notions were inherited from Enlightenment traditions . . The Enlightenment affirmed a mind/body binary in which the mind was seen as more significant, while the body was dismissed as a hindrance to res cogitans, Decartes' term for the intellect and selfhood."

Opening the body in the form of pricking it with a needle goes against this Western idea of bodily boundaries. In tribal societies, both ancient and modern, this legacy is obviously lacking, and marking the body carries with it a whole slew of meanings, from status symbols to rites of passage, to marks of humanity.

If you are a Westerner, if you mark your body, you are mutilating it. You are demonstrating your disdain for traditional norms and are likely to be viewed as dangerous, criminal, sexually, deviant or psychologically disturbed. Some of these views are changing, of course, but try getting medical or dental treatment if you are heavily modded and see how lingering these ideas can be.

I hope I've added to your understanding. It's really a pretty complex question, and I certainly do not consider myself any kind of classical or Enlightenment scholar. I can recommend a number of good books if you are interested in body modification or philosophy of the human body.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Odd that this should come up in the "you can't prove you exist" thread, because one of the motivations, I think, that people have (among the legion) for body modification is just that--to prove to themselves that they exist, to reinforce the envelope of the body with meaning.

To reinforce the body with meaning isn't the same as wanting to prove one exists. This is far reaching. Are you going to tell anyone you exist because you have a tatoo? I hope not. I think we are smarter than cave me.

It's early am so I googled my assumption.
This is what I found.
http://www.umm.maine.edu/resources/b...tash/psych.htm
There is no one reason why some one would want to participate in body modification. Here is a list of some of the more common reasons why:

Protection , Exhibitionism
Sexuality , Aesthetics
Identification , Fighting Societal Norms
Pain (masochists) , Trend
Sign of Loyalty , Distinction
Shock Value , Emulation

I've been thinking of having my tatoo removed. To use your reasoning in reverse would mean I want to take away the reinforcement that I exist.


It's not logical sorry.