Shooting Rekindles Issues of Gun Rights and Restrictions - Page 3

04-18-2007, 11:57 PM

The constitution says owning a gun is a right.
I have "sorely needed a gun" many times. Who said streets? "back then" is irrelevant to the technology, the right is not.
Driving a car is a privilege based on ability, access and conduct. It is the law.

piercehawkeye45 · 04-19-2007, 12:02 AM

Because the law and consititution is always right.....
I already said why I don't think the consititution is not valid for this argument, no reply?

Did you soley needed a gun or some form of protection?

I expect massive hatred and rage from this but I am starting to believe that owning a gun is not about freedom but power.

TheMercenary · 04-19-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Because the law and consititution is always right.....
I already said why I don't think the consititution is not valid for this argument, no reply?

You don't get to cherry pick what you want from the Bill of Rights. So you don't think the Constitution is valid for this agrument? Give us a break. This is about the Constitutional right. The courts have continually upheld this right, as recently as March 2007:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17538139/

04-19-2007, 12:06 AM

If you don't agree with the foundation of the US then it does not matter, you should not argue at all about our laws and way of life.
No, they are good for shooting hobbies as well. I have had two jobs where I used a side-arm.
Freedom and power are the same thing... that is the idea, to be empowered.
Power is not a bad thing, unless one lives in fear of others, disliking other's ability to say, write, do as they like.
The opposite of the power of freedom is fear of self and others.

piercehawkeye45 · 04-19-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

The opposite of the power of freedom is fear of self and others.

Isn't this why many people buy guns in the first place. A fear of being attacked or robbed?

Quote:

Power is not a bad thing, unless one lives in fear of others

Once again, this is why I don't like the power that comes with guns.

Quote:

No, they are good for shooting hobbies as well. I have had two jobs where I used a side-arm.

Please go on. Owning a gun for a job is much different than owning a gun for personal reasons.

04-19-2007, 01:12 AM

Not fear, we just don't want not to be able to defend ourselves. Not the same as fear at all. It could be, but the two are not and, in no way have to be the same thing. I have rarely met anyone that stated they had a weapon because they feared.

Most, whom are not compulsive, do not go through the process of deciding if they are afraid of being robbed today while locking their doors. It is just a precaution. Not out of fear, just necessity.
Some are just more cautious or in different situations than others. They have guns, mace, more locks, etc. That is all.

While some are content to practice the common option when they differ with another, do not participate in an activity.
Some decide that is not enough... they think they must FORCE everyone to be like them.
Why? I don't know. I am a fairly secure individual and of the first ilk. If I don't like something I just don't do it.

If you don't like the power that comes with guns... don't buy one. Problem solved. Though I don't get it... s-like saying you don't like a college education.
No, owning one for personal reasons and one for a job is no different. I have been in both situations more than once and know.
I am correct.

It is just a tool, a piece of metal, that is all it is, all it will ever be, all it can be. Job, no job, hobby, protection, art, etc... just a tool, nothing more. Never bad, never good, nothing other than a metal tool.

Spexxvet · 04-19-2007, 08:41 AM

If there is someone with a gun accosting you, are you more or less likely to get shot, if you are also armed?

04-19-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

If there is someone with a gun accosting you, are you more or less likely to get shot, if you are also armed?

Situational. If you do not have a gun, you are always at a disadvantage.
However, not the case if you are armed.

glatt · 04-19-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Situational. If you do not have a gun, you are always at a disadvantage.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Is it situational, or are you always at a disadvantage without a gun? If you are always, regardless of the situation, at a disadvantage without a gun, then it isn't situational.

elSicomoro · 04-19-2007, 08:58 AM

The right to bear arms is an important one, and I support it strongly. But like anything, I think our rights have limits. But I don't know where the cut-off line should be.

04-19-2007, 01:54 PM

That is not what I wrote at all.
It is situational. Sometimes you may be at a disadvantage or you may be able to kill the offender... it depends on the situation.
If you do not have a gun, you will NEVER be able to protect yourself from someone with a gun.
How did you read what you wrote out of my post?

glatt · 04-19-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That is not what I wrote at all.
It is situational. Sometimes ....

You said "always". You even put it in bold. Do you know what "always" means? Now you are saying "sometimes" and "it depends on the situation." Which is it?

Spexxvet · 04-20-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

...
It is situational. Sometimes you may be at a disadvantage or you may be able to kill the offender... it depends on the situation.
If you do not have a gun, you will NEVER be able to protect yourself from someone with a gun...

The question was about the likelihood of getting shot, not about being at a disadvantage or being the victim of a crime. Simply getting shot.

If someone wants to kill you, they will shoot you pre-emptively. You'll have no chance to "protect"yourself with your gun unless you have your weapon ready, safety off, identify the threat, and are faster on the draw than your attacker. If your attacker wants anything else, why would they kill you if you're unarmed? Unless, of course, you pose a threat to him by packing heat.

Beestie · 04-19-2007, 02:24 PM

The debate isn't and never has been about why we should be able to own guns. There are a lot of people - reasonable, normal, Constitution-loving citizens- that are just never going to be comfortable with that right. On that, we just have to find a way to get along.

There are an endless number of anecdotal justifications supporting gun ownership and for undermining it. Its not about who can whip out the bestest, mostest ones for the side they like.

04-19-2007, 02:25 PM

Can you read at all?
I said if you do not have a gun you are always at a disadvantage against someone with a gun.

If you have a gun you may be able to kill the perp.

I would much rather be in the latter category.

Beestie... then they should not buy a gun, problem solved.

04-19-2007, 08:41 AM	#7
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	If there is someone with a gun accosting you, are you more or less likely to get shot, if you are also armed? __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

04-19-2007, 02:24 PM	#14
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	The debate isn't and never has been about why we should be able to own guns. There are a lot of people - reasonable, normal, Constitution-loving citizens- that are just never going to be comfortable with that right. On that, we just have to find a way to get along. There are an endless number of anecdotal justifications supporting gun ownership and for undermining it. Its not about who can whip out the bestest, mostest ones for the side they like. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

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04-18-2007, 11:57 PM	#1
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	The constitution says owning a gun is a right. I have "sorely needed a gun" many times. Who said streets? "back then" is irrelevant to the technology, the right is not. Driving a car is a privilege based on ability, access and conduct. It is the law.

04-19-2007, 12:02 AM	#2
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Because the law and consititution is always right..... I already said why I don't think the consititution is not valid for this argument, no reply? Did you soley needed a gun or some form of protection? I expect massive hatred and rage from this but I am starting to believe that owning a gun is not about freedom but power.

04-19-2007, 12:06 AM	#4
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	If you don't agree with the foundation of the US then it does not matter, you should not argue at all about our laws and way of life. No, they are good for shooting hobbies as well. I have had two jobs where I used a side-arm. Freedom and power are the same thing... that is the idea, to be empowered. Power is not a bad thing, unless one lives in fear of others, disliking other's ability to say, write, do as they like. The opposite of the power of freedom is fear of self and others.

04-19-2007, 01:12 AM	#6
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Not fear, we just don't want not to be able to defend ourselves. Not the same as fear at all. It could be, but the two are not and, in no way have to be the same thing. I have rarely met anyone that stated they had a weapon because they feared. Most, whom are not compulsive, do not go through the process of deciding if they are afraid of being robbed today while locking their doors. It is just a precaution. Not out of fear, just necessity. Some are just more cautious or in different situations than others. They have guns, mace, more locks, etc. That is all. While some are content to practice the common option when they differ with another, do not participate in an activity. Some decide that is not enough... they think they must FORCE everyone to be like them. Why? I don't know. I am a fairly secure individual and of the first ilk. If I don't like something I just don't do it. If you don't like the power that comes with guns... don't buy one. Problem solved. Though I don't get it... s-like saying you don't like a college education. No, owning one for personal reasons and one for a job is no different. I have been in both situations more than once and know. I am correct. It is just a tool, a piece of metal, that is all it is, all it will ever be, all it can be. Job, no job, hobby, protection, art, etc... just a tool, nothing more. Never bad, never good, nothing other than a metal tool.

04-19-2007, 08:58 AM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The right to bear arms is an important one, and I support it strongly. But like anything, I think our rights have limits. But I don't know where the cut-off line should be.

04-19-2007, 01:54 PM	#11
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	That is not what I wrote at all. It is situational. Sometimes you may be at a disadvantage or you may be able to kill the offender... it depends on the situation. If you do not have a gun, you will NEVER be able to protect yourself from someone with a gun. How did you read what you wrote out of my post?

04-19-2007, 02:25 PM	#15
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Can you read at all? I said if you do not have a gun you are always at a disadvantage against someone with a gun. If you have a gun you may be able to kill the perp. I would much rather be in the latter category. Beestie... then they should not buy a gun, problem solved.

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