New study/experiment. Uber conservatives now get a diagnosis?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

By pure happenstance one person who did not view this man as some sort of disturbing social leper, came into his proximity. Had Cicer not done so, someone else might have helped...or not. Again, to me these things are too big, too societal in nature to be left to the vagaries of human kindness. That one guy isn't just one guy. He is one visible example of a person in trouble or in need. There are many, almost countless others in most wealthy cities of the industrial West.

And for that one act of kindness should be surely praised and emulated. But the problem is "Then what?". Did they take the poor homeless man home with them? Did they empty their bank account and make is life truely better? Did they buy them dinner? What about dinner the next day? Did they take them to the doctor to see if they needed medication? Did they buy them the needed medication? Are they going to supply the needed medication for ever since the poor guy obviouly can't work? Did they take them home or get them some place where they could shower? And what about all the other homeless friends he has? What about them? Where does it end?

You can't have rescue fantasies about all the bad in the world. Just do little bits here and there and try to make a difference. Are you willing to sacrifice the well being of you and your family to help every single person in the world that needs help?

[9th Engineer]

Gosh. In this deeply fractured society, it is now an option to believe that the other side is not just incorrect, not just wrong, not even just stupid, but actually broken.

Believe what you want. And then get ready for the twister.

We can't survive like this. We can't function like this. We can't live our lives believing that everybody else is a broken, sick fuck. It's not gonna work. We can't educate our children, we can't defend ourselves from enemies, we can't help the unfortunate.

Yesterday we had a study showing that almost all adult men avoid lost, crying children in malls. Why: they expect they will be charged with being a pedophile.

We simply can't go on like this. It won't end well.

The people who believe differently than you are perfectly normal people. Someday, you may need to ask them for help. What will be the result? Will they help you? Someday, they may ask you for help. Will you help them?

How are we going to come together? Especially if there comes a time when we really need to?

Welcome to the world of my generation. This doesn't even come close to scratching the surface of the conclusion most of us who've taken a good look around have come to. You're right, as a 21yo there's no way I'd ever get close to a crying kid in a mall. The new golden rule is 'no good dead goes unpunished' we've known that from middle school. You also should never try to give someone CPR because you can become implicated in their lawsuit if things don't go well. Everything is now somebody else's fault, and so your #1 priority is to avoid involvement with other people in trouble.
In my honors classes in highschool we used to laugh half-heartedly about all sorts of morbid jokes about how we were working until 2am each night so that we would be good cows for the party kids and weed smokers to milk and abuse once we grew up. You've created a generation where the intelligent are turned into cynical society haters, because that's what we've learned from school, the news, domestic policy, and everyone else sitting on the rung above us.
You know what we learned in health class in middle school? You should have seen the scared faces in the class when we covered the risks of sex. I'm not just talking about STD's here, we guys got to learn how we were legally screwed if a girl ever decided to file charges for anything. And then the next day our teacher carefully explained to the girls about how they should contact the authorities if they ever felt like they were being harassed or pressured in any way (not just sexually, just in any form). In HIGHSCHOOL!! You think I was going to risk an automatic criminal record if a girl and I had a falling out and she decided to be vindictive?
Guess what? My generation is out there with full knowledge that anyone they don't intimately know has the power to fuck up the rest of their life. I could list dozens of people I know who I've traded stories with about this shit. Assume other people are just good, normal people? Not on your fucking life!! Go and watch Brady Bunch reruns for that period in history. I'd like to send out a big fucking thanks-a-million for the society we're inheriting here.

I didn't see that post before, but you want to know what your kids think? A bunch of my friends and I from the honors organization on campus once actually toasted to faith in those we don't know, then we all grinned and almost spilled our drinks laughing. It's broken? You better fucking believe it.

[Flint]

The Buddhist parable about gently licking maggots from the wounded dog comes to mind. The "wounded dog" is transformed into the deity that the person desired, for many years, to see. The act of compassion is the greater part of any religion, or system of beliefs. It is the highest form.

[DanaC]

The act of compassion is the greater part of any religion, or system of beliefs. It is the highest form.

I wholly agree.

[DanaC]

My answer to that Merc is that it's a damn sight less oppressive if everyone contributes a manageable portion of their wealth/income in order that no one person has to carry such a burden.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

a manageable portion of their wealth/income.

Great, define that.

[Undertoad]

Monday morning man probably needed help 10 or 20 years ago. Whether he needed help that day, nobody knows, because nobody asked him. It is rude for us to assume that he needed help when he didn't ask for it and maybe he only wanted to have a seat for a while. It's even rude to assume he wanted someone to sit next to him.

Now let's try this one!

Compassion is the highest form. Of the following situations, which contains the most compassion?

- I sense you are in need and I help you with what it is you need. It may be money, or it may be education, or a room for a month, or a flight outta town, or simply advice, or merely a warm coat, or merely a friendly smile acknowledging your presence and sitting down in your proximity.

OR

- Anonymous government employees watch over the removal of a fifth of my paycheck. They take what they need, then send you a check for the amount you qualify for. We never meet, but I assume that because a huge chunk of my earnings was taken from me for your assistance, you are surely being helped.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Compassion is the highest form. Of the following situations, which contains the most compassion?

- I sense you are in need and I help you with what it is you need. It may be money, or it may be education, or a room for a month, or a flight outta town, or simply advice, or merely a warm coat, or merely a friendly smile acknowledging your presence and sitting down in your proximity.

OR

- Anonymous government employees watch over the removal of a fifth of my paycheck. They take what they need, then send you a check for the amount you qualify for. We never meet, but I assume that because a huge chunk of my earnings was taken from me for your assistance, you are surely being helped.

I'd say the second one, because it happens for just about anybody who needs it, and lots of people can go ahead and do the first one as well, whereas people who advocate the primacy of the first one are more likely to be advocating the removal of the second.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I'd say the second one, because it happens for just about anybody who needs it, and lots of people can go ahead and do the first one as well, whereas people who advocate the primacy of the first one are more likely to be advocating the removal of the second.

And that's where the rubber hits the road so to speak.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Monday morning man probably needed help 10 or 20 years ago. Whether he needed help that day, nobody knows, because nobody asked him. It is rude for us to assume that he needed help when he didn't ask for it and maybe he only wanted to have a seat for a while. It's even rude to assume he wanted someone to sit next to him.

Now let's try this one!

Yea- how presumptuous of me!!! Ha!!!! Haa!!! I am such a bitch. He smelled so bad- like death-but i just come along and assume that everyone that is leaning at a right angle in their chair with a painful expression on their face has something wrong with them. Might need help.
Presumptuous bitch.......I also presumed that he had just been helped by the hospital which is why he had the shoes on and might have needed some money.....and gotten some fucking bad and painful news on top of it.

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I. I wasn't the Queen of Mercy either....I'm no saint....I just handed him money no questions asked.....pretty lazy of me really....Since when do I have to fucking ask to give people money?!? I didn't sit next to him either- I was the only one that would sit in his general vicinity. Because that is where I always sit. I just didn't go out of my way to avoid him or the situation either. By your tale you would have me plopping on his lap- so you could make some ridiculous point about helping people unasked.

Bitches.

You act like everyone that needs help asks for it! Who is presumptuous now? I don't care if my stomach fell out of my body with hunger.....I would never ask for anything and neither do a lot of people........People need to ask for help? No letting people keep any dignity- make them beg.

Dude here's some cash- see ya! I wish people would do that to me....

Whatever UT.

Go try that on someone that didn't just crawl from underneath a rock. Or someone that hides in a damned cubicle their whole life.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yea- how presumptuous of me!!! Ha!!!! Haa!!! I am such a bitch. He smelled so bad- like death-but i just come along and assume that everyone that is leaning at a right angle in their chair with a painful expression on their face has something wrong with them. Might need help.
Presumptuous bitch.......I also presumed that he had just been helped by the hospital which is why he had the shoes on and might have needed some money.....and gotten some fucking bad and painful news on top of it.

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I. I wasn't the Queen of Mercy either....I'm no saint....I just handed him money no questions asked.....pretty lazy of me really....Since when do I have to fucking ask to give people money?!? I didn't sit next to him either- I was the only one that would sit in his general vicinity. Because that is where I always sit. I just didn't go out of my way to avoid him or the situation either. By your tale you would have me plopping on his lap- so you could make some ridiculous point about helping people unasked.

Bitches.

You act like everyone that needs help asks for it! Who is presumptuous now? I don't care if my stomach fell out of my body with hunger.....I would never ask for anything and neither do a lot of people........People need to ask for help? No letting people keep any dignity- make them beg.

Dude here's some cash- see ya! I wish people would do that to me....

Whatever UT.

Go try that on someone that didn't just crawl from underneath a rock. Or someone that hides in a damned cubicle their whole life.

So if the dude ran off an bought a dime bag from somebody or a fifth of MD 20/20 wine how did you just help him? further his addiction of feed his belly? That is why such actions are quite fruitless. Now walk up to the counter and buy the dude a sandwhich, good on you. Throwing money at them is wrong and most people who have experience with dealing with homeless people would tell you so IMHO.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yea- how presumptuous of me!!! Ha!!!! Haa!!! I am such a bitch. He smelled so bad- like death-but i just come along and assume that everyone that is leaning at a right angle in their chair with a painful expression on their face has something wrong with them. Might need help.
Presumptuous bitch.......I also presumed that he had just been helped by the hospital which is why he had the shoes on and might have needed some money.....and gotten some fucking bad and painful news on top of it.

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I. I wasn't the Queen of Mercy either....I'm no saint....I just handed him money no questions asked.....pretty lazy of me really....Since when do I have to fucking ask to give people money?!? I didn't sit next to him either- I was the only one that would sit in his general vicinity. Because that is where I always sit. I just didn't go out of my way to avoid him or the situation either. By your tale you would have me plopping on his lap- so you could make some ridiculous point about helping people unasked.

Bitches.

You act like everyone that needs help asks for it! Who is presumptuous now? I don't care if my stomach fell out of my body with hunger.....I would never ask for anything and neither do a lot of people........People need to ask for help? No letting people keep any dignity- make them beg.

Dude here's some cash- see ya! I wish people would do that to me....

Whatever UT.

Go try that on someone that didn't just crawl from underneath a rock. Or someone that hides in a damned cubicle their whole life.

No stand-up guy to come along in your defense UT.

I would but I am too dumbfounded at the moment. Maybe you should have called her a name instead of making up a sensible alternative scenario.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

No stand-up guy to come along in your defense UT.

He's a big boy, he can take it.

[Undertoad]

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I.

R e a l l y ?

Or was that just a throwaway line, something you said to justify your position, that you didn't really think about.

If someone approached me and gave me money I would never accept it. (And then I would go home and re-think my decision to wear sweat pants everywhere.)

Accepting charity you don't need is fundamentally dishonest.

[DanaC]

Given that most people feel somehow smaller for having needed help (not wanting to be a 'charity case' not wanting to use 'the begging bowl') I would actually consider the second more compassionate. It much easier for the person receiving help if they are merely accessing a fund to which they have rights as a citizen who will at various times pay varying amounts of tax and national insurance.

To be poor and asked if you need help can be a humiliating and upsetting experience. Asking for help even more so.

As we live in a world where many people do have to rely on personal compassion then personal charity is a compassionate act. But to me it is more compassionate to agree as a society to set up a fund for those in need without them having to accept the charity of their fellows.