New study/experiment. Uber conservatives now get a diagnosis?

[Undertoad]

Monday morning man probably needed help 10 or 20 years ago. Whether he needed help that day, nobody knows, because nobody asked him. It is rude for us to assume that he needed help when he didn't ask for it and maybe he only wanted to have a seat for a while. It's even rude to assume he wanted someone to sit next to him.

Now let's try this one!

Compassion is the highest form. Of the following situations, which contains the most compassion?

- I sense you are in need and I help you with what it is you need. It may be money, or it may be education, or a room for a month, or a flight outta town, or simply advice, or merely a warm coat, or merely a friendly smile acknowledging your presence and sitting down in your proximity.

OR

- Anonymous government employees watch over the removal of a fifth of my paycheck. They take what they need, then send you a check for the amount you qualify for. We never meet, but I assume that because a huge chunk of my earnings was taken from me for your assistance, you are surely being helped.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Compassion is the highest form. Of the following situations, which contains the most compassion?

- I sense you are in need and I help you with what it is you need. It may be money, or it may be education, or a room for a month, or a flight outta town, or simply advice, or merely a warm coat, or merely a friendly smile acknowledging your presence and sitting down in your proximity.

OR

- Anonymous government employees watch over the removal of a fifth of my paycheck. They take what they need, then send you a check for the amount you qualify for. We never meet, but I assume that because a huge chunk of my earnings was taken from me for your assistance, you are surely being helped.

I'd say the second one, because it happens for just about anybody who needs it, and lots of people can go ahead and do the first one as well, whereas people who advocate the primacy of the first one are more likely to be advocating the removal of the second.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I'd say the second one, because it happens for just about anybody who needs it, and lots of people can go ahead and do the first one as well, whereas people who advocate the primacy of the first one are more likely to be advocating the removal of the second.

And that's where the rubber hits the road so to speak.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Monday morning man probably needed help 10 or 20 years ago. Whether he needed help that day, nobody knows, because nobody asked him. It is rude for us to assume that he needed help when he didn't ask for it and maybe he only wanted to have a seat for a while. It's even rude to assume he wanted someone to sit next to him.

Now let's try this one!

Yea- how presumptuous of me!!! Ha!!!! Haa!!! I am such a bitch. He smelled so bad- like death-but i just come along and assume that everyone that is leaning at a right angle in their chair with a painful expression on their face has something wrong with them. Might need help.
Presumptuous bitch.......I also presumed that he had just been helped by the hospital which is why he had the shoes on and might have needed some money.....and gotten some fucking bad and painful news on top of it.

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I. I wasn't the Queen of Mercy either....I'm no saint....I just handed him money no questions asked.....pretty lazy of me really....Since when do I have to fucking ask to give people money?!? I didn't sit next to him either- I was the only one that would sit in his general vicinity. Because that is where I always sit. I just didn't go out of my way to avoid him or the situation either. By your tale you would have me plopping on his lap- so you could make some ridiculous point about helping people unasked.

Bitches.

You act like everyone that needs help asks for it! Who is presumptuous now? I don't care if my stomach fell out of my body with hunger.....I would never ask for anything and neither do a lot of people........People need to ask for help? No letting people keep any dignity- make them beg.

Dude here's some cash- see ya! I wish people would do that to me....

Whatever UT.

Go try that on someone that didn't just crawl from underneath a rock. Or someone that hides in a damned cubicle their whole life.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yea- how presumptuous of me!!! Ha!!!! Haa!!! I am such a bitch. He smelled so bad- like death-but i just come along and assume that everyone that is leaning at a right angle in their chair with a painful expression on their face has something wrong with them. Might need help.
Presumptuous bitch.......I also presumed that he had just been helped by the hospital which is why he had the shoes on and might have needed some money.....and gotten some fucking bad and painful news on top of it.

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I. I wasn't the Queen of Mercy either....I'm no saint....I just handed him money no questions asked.....pretty lazy of me really....Since when do I have to fucking ask to give people money?!? I didn't sit next to him either- I was the only one that would sit in his general vicinity. Because that is where I always sit. I just didn't go out of my way to avoid him or the situation either. By your tale you would have me plopping on his lap- so you could make some ridiculous point about helping people unasked.

Bitches.

You act like everyone that needs help asks for it! Who is presumptuous now? I don't care if my stomach fell out of my body with hunger.....I would never ask for anything and neither do a lot of people........People need to ask for help? No letting people keep any dignity- make them beg.

Dude here's some cash- see ya! I wish people would do that to me....

Whatever UT.

Go try that on someone that didn't just crawl from underneath a rock. Or someone that hides in a damned cubicle their whole life.

So if the dude ran off an bought a dime bag from somebody or a fifth of MD 20/20 wine how did you just help him? further his addiction of feed his belly? That is why such actions are quite fruitless. Now walk up to the counter and buy the dude a sandwhich, good on you. Throwing money at them is wrong and most people who have experience with dealing with homeless people would tell you so IMHO.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yea- how presumptuous of me!!! Ha!!!! Haa!!! I am such a bitch. He smelled so bad- like death-but i just come along and assume that everyone that is leaning at a right angle in their chair with a painful expression on their face has something wrong with them. Might need help.
Presumptuous bitch.......I also presumed that he had just been helped by the hospital which is why he had the shoes on and might have needed some money.....and gotten some fucking bad and painful news on top of it.

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I. I wasn't the Queen of Mercy either....I'm no saint....I just handed him money no questions asked.....pretty lazy of me really....Since when do I have to fucking ask to give people money?!? I didn't sit next to him either- I was the only one that would sit in his general vicinity. Because that is where I always sit. I just didn't go out of my way to avoid him or the situation either. By your tale you would have me plopping on his lap- so you could make some ridiculous point about helping people unasked.

Bitches.

You act like everyone that needs help asks for it! Who is presumptuous now? I don't care if my stomach fell out of my body with hunger.....I would never ask for anything and neither do a lot of people........People need to ask for help? No letting people keep any dignity- make them beg.

Dude here's some cash- see ya! I wish people would do that to me....

Whatever UT.

Go try that on someone that didn't just crawl from underneath a rock. Or someone that hides in a damned cubicle their whole life.

No stand-up guy to come along in your defense UT.

I would but I am too dumbfounded at the moment. Maybe you should have called her a name instead of making up a sensible alternative scenario.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

No stand-up guy to come along in your defense UT.

He's a big boy, he can take it.

[Undertoad]

Well he didn't turn it down when I gave him money, and hell, if someone approached me and gave me money....neither would I.

R e a l l y ?

Or was that just a throwaway line, something you said to justify your position, that you didn't really think about.

If someone approached me and gave me money I would never accept it. (And then I would go home and re-think my decision to wear sweat pants everywhere.)

Accepting charity you don't need is fundamentally dishonest.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

..."Around you" being the key. After Katrina, I donated to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund. I am not "around" New Orleans. I could not go to New Orleans to help, or to take a car load of supplies. I did not know anyone in New Orleans to send a check to. How would I help them, using your philosophy?
...

Please answer my question.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

...OR

- Anonymous government employees watch over the removal of a fifth of my paycheck. They take what they need, then send you a check for the amount you qualify for. We never meet, but I assume that because a huge chunk of my earnings was taken from me for your assistance, you are surely being helped.

First of all, I don't think all 20% taken from your check goes toward helping those in need.
Can you or I provide the same services that a full-time, well-trained social worker can? Can you or I identify mental illness, refer the person in need to a qualified care giver? Do you or I have the backing and buying power of the government? IMO, a professional will do a better job than you or I would be able to.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

We also live in a world where people will do anything to get by on nothing. ....

I don't get that. What sane person says "yeah, $800 a month - this is the life!"

Originally Posted by Undertoad

We knew that "a manageable portion of their wealth/income" was code for full-blown fucking Marxism, but we were surprised that the code fell away so quickly.

How much is enough?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Yes. By giving them just enough to get by, but not enough to get out, they perpetuated the ghettos.

Could it be that entry-level jobs don't give enough of an improved quality of life, over welfare subsustence, to make it worth getting a job? I've read where people get a job, and have a lower standard of living than when they were on welfare. When employed, they have to pay for health insurance, childcare, transportation, maybe better clothing, etc. Perhaps the increase in minimum wage will widen this gap.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

She'd have to move to Nevada for that to work.

Yeah - TYPICALLY, it's the folks who want to do away with welfare that also don't want to leagalize cock sucking.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

So if the dude ran off an bought a dime bag from somebody or a fifth of MD 20/20 wine how did you just help him? further his addiction of feed his belly? That is why such actions are quite fruitless. ...

And if bought some wholesome, organic, nutritious food, the actions would be fruitful. If you can predict the fruitful vs fruitless, maybe you could help out there...

Originally Posted by lookout123

...if you want something bad enough to work for it, you can achieve it. if you can't it is because you didn't want it bad enough. end of story.

I want so bad to run a two minute mile, be King of the World, be 7 feet tall, and I'm working on it real hard. How hard do I have to work?

[lookout123]

how hard have you tried? my guess is you really haven't tried to do any of those things.

there is a huge difference between saying "i want to have enough money for a fancy car and a big house... now pass me a beer", and "i want to have enough money for a fancy car and a big house, now pass me that pen so i can sketch out my plan".

saying you want something is not the same as committing yourself to achieving it. and, yeah, you can revert to your ridiculous examples for a response if you want.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I don't get that. What sane person says "yeah, $800 a month - this is the life!"

The ones that like having that guaranteed base to back up what they can hustle on the street or make under the table.

Could it be that entry-level jobs don't give enough of an improved quality of life, over welfare subsustence, to make it worth getting a job? I've read where people get a job, and have a lower standard of living than when they were on welfare. When employed, they have to pay for health insurance, childcare, transportation, maybe better clothing, etc.

Yes, that's exactly the problem. Damn little incentive to risk giving it up.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Originally Posted by TheMercenary
We also live in a world where people will do anything to get by on nothing. ....
I don't get that. What sane person says "yeah, $800 a month - this is the life!"

Originally Posted by TheMercenary
So if the dude ran off an bought a dime bag from somebody or a fifth of MD 20/20 wine how did you just help him? further his addiction of feed his belly? That is why such actions are quite fruitless. ...
And if bought some wholesome, organic, nutritious food, the actions would be fruitful. If you can predict the fruitful vs fruitless, maybe you could help out there...

Those who get money and or services for nothing Are quite happy to say "This is the life!".

Those who know and care for people of the street can almost without doubt promise that money given to the dude on the street can tell you that it is a bad idea to give them cash.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

R e a l l y ?

Or was that just a throwaway line, something you said to justify your position, that you didn't really think about.

If someone approached me and gave me money I would never accept it. (And then I would go home and re-think my decision to wear sweat pants everywhere.)

Accepting charity you don't need is fundamentally dishonest.

No....it's something else entirely. Random gifts are awesome! If someone approached me and said hey- here's a river rock take it- same thing.....

You are right, I didn't think that through........