Teacher Fired: Said Bible Is Not Literal - Page 4

piercehawkeye45 · 10-07-2007, 08:29 PM

The definition of atheism should be a lack of belief in any higher power but the meaning got hijacked. Agnosticism is uncertainty. Anti-religious is to deny a certain god.

Most atheists are to religion as someone without a hobby is to stamp collecting. We don't say someone that is without a hobby denies the hobby of stamp collecting, that just sounds stupid, atheism should be the same. Unfortunately, the world is too Christian and Islam centric to change the meaning of atheism.

monster · 10-07-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Most atheists are to religion as someone without a hobby is to stamp collecting. We don't say someone that is without a hobby denies the hobby of stamp collecting, that just sounds stupid, atheism should be the same. Unfortunately, the world is too Christian and Islam centric to change the meaning of atheism.

What rot! Atheists believe there is not god, not that there is no religion. If aren't surre about the non-existence of a god, you're not an atheist. Your analogy sucks -the stamp collecting would be the religion the stamps would be the god.
Atheists would not believe that the stamps existed -no interest in the people who collect them.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-07-2007, 09:27 PM

A lot of atheists does not believe that god exists but do not deny that it is a possibility. I do not believe that Zeus is king of the gods but I won't deny it fully because I can not prove that Zeus is not king of the gods. I do not believe in the Christian god but I do not deny it either.

monster · 10-07-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

A lot of atheists does not believe that god exists but do not deny that it is a possibility.

ummm....if you believe there is not god, then you do deny that it is a possibility. Have you no logic? If you're pretty sure there isn't a god, but not 100%, agnostic is probably closer to the mark.

You're mistaken to call yourself an atheist.

monster · 10-07-2007, 10:25 PM

(That's not to say you're mistaken about your religious perceptions, just about the label you are giving yourself.)

It seems atheist is the new Wiccan...

10-07-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

ummm....if you believe there is not god, then you do deny that it is a possibility. Have you no logic? If you're pretty sure there isn't a god, but not 100%, agnostic is probably closer to the mark.

You're mistaken to call yourself an atheist.

Does that mean you believe in every god that has ever been described?

xoxoxoBruce · 10-07-2007, 11:20 PM

I always thought an atheist believed there is no god(s) and an agnostic doesn't know or care.

Aliantha · 10-07-2007, 11:24 PM

that was my understanding also Bruce. I think you're right.

10-07-2007, 11:45 PM

There are different classifications/levels/designations of atheists.
Some feel they have enough data to believe there is no god.
Declarative statement, there are very few.
Most just do not believe in a god. Non-declarative, not enough evidence.
But they do state that since there is not enough evidence to believe and one should not labor under the illusion that there is. The probability is that there is not and until evidence presents itself there is no reason to believe.
I have never met an atheist that will not say that they believe that there is no Christian/Jewish/Islamic God of the Bible/Torah/Koran, declarative statement.
Agnostics just do not care, they are neutral.

Some call declarative atheists hard or level 1 atheists.
Some call non-declarative atheists soft or level 2 atheists.

Aliantha · 10-07-2007, 11:47 PM

Well whether you have factual evidence or not doesn't really matter does it? If you don't believe then you're an atheist. if you're not sure and you don't really care, then you're agnostic.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-07-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

ummm....if you believe there is not god, then you do deny that it is a possibility. Have you no logic? If you're pretty sure there isn't a god, but not 100%, agnostic is probably closer to the mark.

You have to recognize a god to deny it. If someone is raised in an environment where a god is not even mentioned, how would you label that person? They can not be an atheist according to you because they need to deny a god, but that person can not do that because they have no god to deny. They would not be considered agnostic for the same reasons.

And no, just because you do not believe in a god does not mean you rule out all possibility for the same reason evolution and gravity are still considered a theories, lack of universal evidence. I am basically positive there is no god but I do not have the universal proof to back it up with, so I will not be arrogant enough to deny it.

Belief has nothing to do with evidence so it is very possible to believe in something but say you do not have the universal proof to prove it, gravity for example. When you change it to negative terms it works the same way, I believe there is no god but I do not have evidence to universally disprove god, so I am not going to deny it.

Quote:

You're mistaken to call yourself an atheist.

I don't call myself an atheist, I call myself a non-theist for this exact reason.

10-07-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Well whether you have factual evidence or not doesn't really matter does it? If you don't believe then you're an atheist. if you're not sure and you don't really care, then you're agnostic.

Incorrect.
A - non theist- believer of god.
That is all it means, nothing more.
I do not believe in a god, I am atheist. It could not be more simple.
Non-theists are atheists, agnostics are atheists... call it what you want. If you do not believe in a god(s), you are an atheist.

10-07-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

how would you label that person

Because we use language to communicate.

Aliantha · 10-07-2007, 11:59 PM

I think it's semantics really. This discussion is going round in circles.

You fellas can have at it.

monster · 10-08-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

You have to recognize a god to deny it

Nope. You have to recognise the concept of a god. Which clearly we all do to some extent or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

the difference between atheist and non-theist is none. They mean the same thing. sematically. The prefix a- means not or without.

10-07-2007, 10:25 PM	#50
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	(That's not to say you're mistaken about your religious perceptions, just about the label you are giving yourself.) It seems atheist is the new Wiccan... __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

10-07-2007, 11:24 PM	#53
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	that was my understanding also Bruce. I think you're right. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-07-2007, 11:45 PM	#54
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	There are different classifications/levels/designations of atheists. Some feel they have enough data to believe there is no god. Declarative statement, there are very few. Most just do not believe in a god. Non-declarative, not enough evidence. But they do state that since there is not enough evidence to believe and one should not labor under the illusion that there is. The probability is that there is not and until evidence presents itself there is no reason to believe. I have never met an atheist that will not say that they believe that there is no Christian/Jewish/Islamic God of the Bible/Torah/Koran, declarative statement. Agnostics just do not care, they are neutral. Some call declarative atheists hard or level 1 atheists. Some call non-declarative atheists soft or level 2 atheists. Last edited by rkzenrage; 10-07-2007 at 11:51 PM.

10-07-2007, 11:47 PM	#55
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Well whether you have factual evidence or not doesn't really matter does it? If you don't believe then you're an atheist. if you're not sure and you don't really care, then you're agnostic. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-07-2007, 11:59 PM	#59
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think it's semantics really. This discussion is going round in circles. You fellas can have at it. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-07-2007, 08:29 PM	#46
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	The definition of atheism should be a lack of belief in any higher power but the meaning got hijacked. Agnosticism is uncertainty. Anti-religious is to deny a certain god. Most atheists are to religion as someone without a hobby is to stamp collecting. We don't say someone that is without a hobby denies the hobby of stamp collecting, that just sounds stupid, atheism should be the same. Unfortunately, the world is too Christian and Islam centric to change the meaning of atheism.

10-07-2007, 09:27 PM	#48
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	A lot of atheists does not believe that god exists but do not deny that it is a possibility. I do not believe that Zeus is king of the gods but I won't deny it fully because I can not prove that Zeus is not king of the gods. I do not believe in the Christian god but I do not deny it either.

10-07-2007, 11:20 PM	#52
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I always thought an atheist believed there is no god(s) and an agnostic doesn't know or care.

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