Saving the US Auto Industry

[Shawnee123]

I'm admitting to tail posting, as I need to get to work, but this was on my mind last night.

Bri's tales are similar to tales I've heard around here: many from GM employees themselves.

The wage breakdown is really interesting. Honda, who has manufacturers in our area, pays their employees well. They get paid to WORK. They don't get away with a whole lot of crap: I've heard people say they are just a number there, but that they are a number who gets paid well for working hard. I hear few complaints.

The GM stories I've heard are different. Retirees have told me of days spent playing cards. They make much more than Honda employees, but don't seem to have the accountability...therefore GM is paying people more, to get less production and, it follows, less quality. THough I am sure this is not true of all employees by a long shot...the fact that this environment exists at all has always been troubling.

The problem: the other big employers in this area are suppliers. If GM goes down, they suffer. Honda suffers because they are paying more to make up for business the supplier isn't getting from GM...the trickle effect is quite scary.

I wish I could say let them fail, but I see the job market in this area already.

Obviously, a blank check is not in order. I don't know the solution, but both extremes are not good, imho.

The smartass side of me thinks that perhaps some of the employees could sell their RV that's bigger than my place, their top of the line Harley, their 45000 ton pick-em-up truck, and learn to live like the rest of us schmucks who get by with so much less.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

The smartass side of me thinks that perhaps some of the employees could sell their RV that's bigger than my place, their top of the line Harley, their 45000 ton pick-em-up truck, and learn to live like the rest of us schmucks who get by with so much less.

Sell them to whom?

[glatt]

Do they deliver? I could use a shed. I'd pay $100 for a large RV. I'm sure my neighbors would be thrilled if I parked one in my back yard.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Sell them to whom?

The Chinese, obviously.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

The problem: the other big employers in this area are suppliers. If GM goes down, they suffer. Honda suffers because they are paying more to make up for business the supplier isn't getting from GM...the trickle effect is quite scary.

You have ignored lessons from history. If GM goes down, all those supplies and all those employee jobs are saved. GM then reorganizes. However if GM gets $billions, then those jobs are lost later and supplies go under.

Stated was a fact you should know - Chapter 7 verse Chapter 11. Liars tell us that if GM goes down, that all jobs are lost. Wrong. Wrong are repeatedly demonstrated in history.

Meanwhile, this will do nothing to affect Honda’s part prices. In fact, using basic economics, Honda’s prices will go down. No, prices won’t because of other facts based in a concept called quality – beyond this discussion.

GM has no intention of fixing their problem because of a big carrot - $billions of free money. GM will not fix anything until bankruptcy theats force GM to fix their only problem - Rick Wagoner. The longer Rick Wagoner is there, then Chapter 7 becomes more likely.

We are all expected to learn from history. Next post will provide but another historical example that everyone should know. Again, company saved once the only problem was removed.

[tw]

Why does IBM still exist? John Akers, an MBA, was running IBM into the ground while claiming to be fixing IBM. In 1992, Bill Gates finally understood why he had so much trouble with IBM. 1990s IBM desks had IBM-XT PCs with CGA monitors. No software sold in malls could run on computers in IBM Corporate. John Akers did not even know how to use a computer except for e-mail and stock quotes. He also promoted a myth called computer literacy. Akers was the classic bean counter who stifled innovation (especially in mainframes) and therefore destroyed 100,000 jobs.

How did IBM save itself? From Wikipedia, Louis Gerstner

is credited with saving IBM ... he describes his arrival at the company in April 1993, when an active plan was in place to disaggregate the company. The prevailing wisdom of the time held that IBM's core mainframe business was headed for obsolescence. The company's own management was in the process of allowing its various divisions to rebrand and manage themselves — the so-called "Baby Blues."

Gerstner reversed this plan, ... His decision to keep the company together was the defining decision of his tenure. The subsequent refocusing on the IT services business, the embrace of the Internet as a business phenomenon, and a broad effort to revive the company's culture are widely seen as having resulted in one of the most remarkable turnarounds in business history.

IBM stopped firing employees when Gerstner enabled employess to focus on products.

What is always needed to save a company? 85% of all problems are directly traceable to ... but then how many finally appreciate what everyone should have known long ago.

John Akers became IBM's president in 1983. Therefore ten years of stifled innovation terminated over 100,000 jobs. How does GM fix itself? Their Akers (Wagoner) must be replaced by a Gerstner. However some are so misinformed as to blame employees or unions rather than stifled innovation. John Akers and Rick Wagoner are classic bean counters with no grasp of the product and a denial that they are the problem.

Deutsche Bank has a target price for GM stock at zero dollars.

[monster]

Originally Posted by tw

You have ignored lessons from history. If GM goes down, all those supplies and all those employee jobs are saved. .

if it's just GM, maybe. But if it's all of them, no. We're already hanging on by threads, waiting for the turn-around. We've been there for years. We've done chapter 11 -even survived it. But it will take too long for it to work this time. workers for suppliers are already not being paid but it's not just the suppliers, they're only a little part of it. it's the caf on the corner where the workers eat lunch, the preschools where there kids go, the people who clean their houses, mow their lawns, pack their groceries and ask them if they want fries with that. Half of these went in AA when Pfizer closed. they can't survive another so soon. The company logistics may be following the pattern described by events past, but the characters in this play have different structures and the old framework won't fit and can't be made to. Square peg, round hole. Your ivory tower theories of history repeating itself might be comfortable up where you are, but down here on the ground, we can see that the cows are in fact small and not just far away.

(points for that one, Brits and Britophiles....)

[tw]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

The GM stories I've heard are different. Retirees have told me of days spent playing cards. They make much more than Honda employees, but don't seem to have the accountability...

Then you did not work in a GM plant. These are very hard working people - very responsible. When a bad attitude exists, you can quickly see why. Bad attitude is created by bad management. Management so self centered and so destructive to even change all signs to read "employe". Spend massive money only because the boss is important.

Productive company - your boss works for you. Communism - you work for your boss. GM is very communist. Obviously, employees will have a bad attitude. The CEO makes that obvious.

Yes, one day there were many idle employees. A 747 carrying essential parts crashed in Malaysia. Slowly employees had no more work. Therefore those employees are lazy? Hardly.

What happens in a Honda plant if the door manufacturer delivers one defective door? Everyone in Honda stops working. Are those Honda employees lazy? Nonsense. Someone else screwed up. So very responsible employees are doing what they can do - maybe play cards.

If GM employees don't have work, the layers of management have screwed Americans again. 85% of all problems are ...

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by tw

Then you did not work in a GM plant. These are very hard working people - very responsible. When a bad attitude exists, you can quickly see why. Bad attitude is created by bad management. Management so self centered and so destructive to even change all signs to read "employe". Spend massive money only because the boss is important.

Productive company - your boss works for you. Communism - you work for your boss. GM is very communist. Obviously, employees will have a bad attitude. The CEO makes that obvious.

Yes, one day there were many idle employees. A 747 carrying essential parts crashed in Malaysia. Slowly employees had no more work. Therefore those employees are lazy? Hardly.

What happens in a Honda plant if the door manufacturer delivers one defective door? Everyone in Honda stops working. Are those Honda employees lazy? Nonsense. Someone else screwed up. So very responsible employees are doing what they can do - maybe play cards.

If GM employees don't have work, the layers of management have screwed Americans again. 85% of all problems are ...

Honey, I'm just reiterating what people told me. And I'll bet you a LOT of money that no one who works at Honda has ever sat around on the clock playing card. Huh-uh. IN fact, my buddies would laugh to hear that.

But you're right, I blame management. My post did not NOT blame management. You silly wabbit.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

And I'll bet you a LOT of money that no one who works at Honda has ever sat around on the clock playing card.

It’s called just in time delivery. That means parts are always provided.

Toyota had a problem where the only manufacturer of Camry brake cylinders had a factory wide fire. So Toyota management did their job. They got a manufacturer of sewing machines to immediately shift to production of brake cylinders. If I remember correctly, Toyota employees were only idle for a few days.

JIT can only work when management comes from where the work gets done. Rick Wagoner has been a bean counter his entire life. GM's CFO before running GM North America into massive losses and all of GM into the ground today. JIT cannot work where the most ignorant are top executives. Therefore employees get paid to be unproductive.

That, BTW, was also the point of William Edward Deming's famous bean experiment. I understand his beads are now in the Smithsonian. Deming routinely proved that employees are only as productive as the bosses permit. Ironic that he used beans to demonstrate reality.

[Undertoad]

The failure of companies is part of the dynamism that makes the US strong.

In the 1950s, Massachusetts was concerned about the tremendous loss of jobs, as their famous textile mills shut down one by one. But a lot of mills were converted to office space where computer companies moved in, and suddenly Mass. had the Rt. 128 corridor, and a mini silicon valley with DEC, Data General etc., fueled by M.I.T. and the minicomputing revolution.

Now those companies have been eclipsed again and now the area turns to newer possibilities such as biotech. But if we had demanded the preservation of the mills in 1950, none of this would have happened... and we would be talking about places like Burlington and Woburn in the same tones as we talk about Flint and etc... dead-end towns with dead-end jobs.

[lookout123]

If lookout123 was honest, he would have identified their #1 problem. GM sucks only because bean counters run the company and design the products. But that means lookout123 would have to admit his peers are GM's problem.

Are you seriously fucking deranged? What peers do I have at GM? When have I ever defended GM management? Learn to read instead of just seeing a post and deciding you have a cut and paste job that will fit nicely behind it.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The failure of companies is part of the dynamism that makes the US strong.

In the 1950s, Massachusetts was concerned about the tremendous loss of jobs, as their famous textile mills shut down one by one. But a lot of mills were converted to office space where computer companies moved in, and suddenly Mass. had the Rt. 128 corridor, and a mini silicon valley with DEC, Data General etc., fueled by M.I.T. and the minicomputing revolution.

Now those companies have been eclipsed again and now the area turns to newer possibilities such as biotech. But if we had demanded the preservation of the mills in 1950, none of this would have happened... and we would be talking about places like Burlington and Woburn in the same tones as we talk about Flint and etc... dead-end towns with dead-end jobs.

Please quit messing up my vanity searches. Thank you.

[Shawnee123]

Sell them to whom?

I dunno: Honda employees?

Haa...true! The smartass side of me doesn't always think things through.

So we have to change our entire culture that you don't have to have the biggest bike on the block, the nicest house in the hood, and the biggest camper in the camp. Not gonna happen. The smartass side of me wants to say: sorry dumbass, you should have saved a dime or two from your ridiculous wages, and not spend it all on pretending you're somebody.

[glatt]

The Ant and the Grasshopper

IN a field one summer’s day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart’s content. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.
“Why not come and chat with me,” said the Grasshopper, “instead of toiling and moiling in that way?"
“I am helping to lay up food for the winter,” said the Ant, “and recommend you to do the same.”
“Why bother about winter?” said the Grasshopper; “we have got plenty of food at present.” But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil. When the winter came the Grasshopper had no food, and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing every day corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer. Then the Grasshopper knew:
“IT IS BEST TO PREPARE FOR THE DAYS OF NECESSITY.”

The Grasshopper went back to his RV and tried to hang himself, but the ceiling wasn't high enough.