Sexual misconduct

[Undertoad]

Sorry to triple post. Here's one way to think about this. Sometimes we get the advice, don't say anything to someone that you wouldn't say in person.

That just makes sense. that is a good way to think about things.

What if your friend got up in a room of all his friends and moralized like that. How would that be? It'd be like, hey friend, nice gesture but uh -- kinda wasn't needed -- you just got weird at the very least -- I mean at least based on your own past history --

Like the niece who stood up in the middle of one family Christmas party and said now let's take a minute to think about the homeless! Okay that is all perfectly fine, and a marvelous gesture, and we do care very much, but at the same time everybody knows that little display didn't actually help anyone, and was far more about Alison than about the homeless, and was not necessarily the best thing to to, it being Christmas and the family and all.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

are you just a being a dick. do we have a problem here.

You're pushing back against "if you see something, say something", and then mentioned a thing that one might see. It seemed like a situation where one might say something.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Oh now I get it. No, it wasn't about me. It was about ALL good guys.

And as is the case with such things, it was about the poster. That's why he posted it. It wasn't to encourage good behavior.

One moment's aside: remember, he's on Facebook. He's not talking to the world. He's talking to his self-selected friends. This are his chosen friends. And the women who will reflect on his moral status after his statement. That is his biggest audience.

I don't use Facebook, and I have no idea how many friends he has, but I've had the feeling from ambient cultural exposure that many people treat Facebook as if they're announcing to the general population.

My pushback was speaking from the point of view of one of the good guys. I suppose you might not find that obvious but I did assume Terry would see it that way. From the good guys point of view, we don't need any coaching. We're good to go, Ace. We're the ones rocking the house. Our job is to keep being awesome.

"See something, say something" is a request to the good guys. If he were talking to the bad guys, he'd say "stop harassing women". But good guys can have blind spots.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Like the niece who stood up in the middle of one family Christmas party and said now let's take a minute to think about the homeless! Okay that is all perfectly fine, and a marvelous gesture, and we do care very much, but at the same time everybody knows that little display didn't actually help anyone, and was far more about Alison than about the homeless, and was not necessarily the best thing to to, it being Christmas and the family and all.

If you "yes and"ed her, she'd either be delighted, or shown up, depending on what her actual motivations were. Or, if you smile and nod, the event is over. But if you respond with "I give change to homeless people*, and you don't really care about them, you're just trying to look good to the family", then even people who might have found her speech tedious may very well end up defending her.

"Don't say anything to someone that you wouldn't say in person" seems to apply much more strongly to the response than the request in this case.

* Or whatever the equivalent of not harassing women is in this analogy.