Technology = Democracy

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Flint

What is the argument where making it easier to vote is a bad thing?

something... something... voter fraud

[xoxoxoBruce]

North Carolina proved the mail in system can be manipulated.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

North Carolina proved the mail in system can be manipulated.

I'm not talking about absentee ballots. That were illegally requested. And illegally mailed.

I live in a state that's been exclusively voting by mail for twenty years.

* 2000 Oregon becomes the first state in the nation to conduct a presidential election entirely by mail. About 80% of registered voters participated.

Measure 60 eliminated restrictions on vote-by-mail and established it as the single form of voting for elections in Oregon. It also required vote-by-mail to be used for biennial primaries and general elections as well as eliminating polling places.

It has bipartisan support, and people vote more often because of it:

A survey done in 2003 ... 81% of respondents favored the vote-by-mail system. 19% favored voting at the polls. The poll also shows high favorability among both registered Democrats (85%) and Republicans (76%). 30% of respondents said they voted more often since vote-by-mail was enacted.

I get a voting packet in the mail. Each candidate is listed and has a standard form bio/statement of positions. Each ballot measure has dozens of pages of debate points both 'for' and 'against'. If you want to do your own research, you have weeks to do so, at your own pace, in your own time. Sit down with your packet and a web browser and take notes. Make a spreadsheet. Discuss with your family. Pray, meditate, wait for inspiration. Days pass, weeks pass. Read articles, do soul-searching. When you're ready, fill it out, sign it and mail it. Or just drop it in a ballot mailbox outside your county courthouse.

Imagine doing all that in 30 seconds in a cramped voting booth while you're late to work and just waited in line for two hours, the machine is broken, they "don't have your name" on the list of registered voters, and you can't even decipher the obtuse wording of the ballot measure.

[xoxoxoBruce]

How do you know the election outcomes are legit?
What about the people who don't give a rat's ass, give it to a friend, is a resident foreign spy, or loses it in a poker game?

[tw]

Once upon a time, the League of Women voters would mail sample ballots to all voters weeks before an election. Then voters could plan on what they would vote for long before going to polls.

It no longer happens.

They used high tech - US Mail.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How do you know the election outcomes are legit?
What about the people who don't give a rat's ass, give it to a friend, is a resident foreign spy, or loses it in a poker game?

Bruce, we've had twenty years for those problems to happen, and they haven't. That's how you know.

People can actually have their ballot rejected because the signature on their ballot is deemed to "not match" their signature on file. To the question, is "a matching signature" a valid way of determining who a person is-- is it better or worse than showing up in person with a non-photo ID*, like a utility bill with your name on it? *You can do this in 17 states.

Secretary of State Dennis Richardson (R), determined we had .002 percent [of "suspicious ballots"] in the 2016 election. Richardson said it’s time for President Trump to back up what he says [about voter fraud] with facts. When officials make unsubstantiated claims ... “it causes greater distrust of the government. … I want to make sure that the citizens of the state can trust their [voting] system.” Understand, Bruce?

VOTER PARTICIPATION is what makes a Democracy, and Turnout in Oregon increased more between 2012 and 2016 than in any other state. Overall voter turnout in the state reached 68 percent in the 2016 presidential election, up from 64 percent during the 2012 non-AVR [automatic voter registration] election period. Nationally, voter turnout increased by only 1.6 points.

More people voting is GOOD. Democracy is GOOD.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Flint

Bruce, we've had twenty years for those problems to happen, and they haven't. That's how you know.

Which was told to you by the people who were elected by this system, I wouldn't expect them to say otherwise. I will say I trust it more than internet voting.

Secretary of State Dennis Richardson (R), determined we had .002 percent [of "suspicious ballots"] in the 2016 election. Richardson said it’s time for President Trump to back up what he says [about voter fraud] with facts. When officials make unsubstantiated claims ... “it causes greater distrust of the government. … I want to make sure that the citizens of the state can trust their [voting] system.” Understand, Bruce?

I understand this is a statement from a career politician who doesn't want the boat that's carried him, to be rocked. It's harder to rape and pillage when the public doesn't trust you.

VOTER PARTICIPATION is what makes a Democracy, and Turnout in Oregon increased more between 2012 and 2016 than in any other state. Overall voter turnout in the state reached 68 percent in the 2016 presidential election, up from 64 percent during the 2012 non-AVR [automatic voter registration] election period. Nationally, voter turnout increased by only 1.6 points.

More people voting is GOOD. Democracy is GOOD.

If those people know they are voting. Even better if they care about taking the time to know what they are voting for.